AVR HDMI ARC issue

[Ambleton]

Hi all,

I have an odd AVR set up issue.

I have recently purchased a second hand amplifier. A yamaha DSP-Z7.

Only HDMI inputs on the amp support multi-channel audio. The optical input only supports two channel - which is B.annoying.

My smart tv has an ARC out, but no other HDMI outputs. The amplifier is NOT ARC compatible.

Is there a decent box/converter that can do one of the following:

1- take the 5.1 optical out of the TV and convert to HDMI

2- take ARC HDMI out from the TV and output a dumb HDMI for my AVR

Otherwise I'll end up only having 2 channel for everything out of my smart tv

[Road2Ruin]

I would be amazed if the optical input didn't support Dolby 5.1 of some sort. My 20 year old yamaha does. The problem is usually the output to it is only 2.0 as most TVs don't support 5.1 pass through to the optical with the exception of its own tuner.

[Road2Ruin]

I would be amazed if the optical input didn't support Dolby 5.1 of some sort. My 20 year old yamaha does. The problem is usually the output to it is only 2.0 as most TVs don't support 5.1 pass through to the optical with the exception of its own tuner.

[Ambleton]

Tell me about it! Clearly says In the original manual though that only HDMI inputs support multi channel audio.

[Ambleton]

My only other option is to buy a separate "smart" freesat box and use the tv solely as a large monitor, with a single HDMI feed from the AVR.

That way my connections would be:
RCA from music cast into amp
HDMI from PS3 into amp
HDMI from freesat box into amp

HDMI out of AVR into TV

[SS2.]

DSP-Z7 Manual said:

You can use the [optical & coaxial] digital jacks to input PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams. When you connect components to both the COAXIAL and OPTICAL jacks, priority is given to the signals input at the COAXIAL jack. All digital input jacks are compatible with up to 96-kHz sampling digital signals.

[Road2Ruin]

Manual says 'You can use the digital jacks to input PCM, Dolby Digital and
DTS bitstreams. When you connect components to both the
COAXIAL and OPTICAL jacks, priority is given to the signals
input at the COAXIAL jack. All digital input jacks are
compatible with up to 96-kHz sampling digital signals.'

So it appears it does support bitstream input.
This is from page 20 of the pdf manual.

[Ambleton]

SS2. said:

DSP-Z7 Manual said:

You can use the [optical & coaxial] digital jacks to input PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams. When you connect components to both the COAXIAL and OPTICAL jacks, priority is given to the signals input at the COAXIAL jack. All digital input jacks are compatible with up to 96-kHz sampling digital signals.

Yes, however only stereo it seems.

On page 22 it goes on to state.

[SS2.]

Your extract from the manual indicates the optical & coaxial inputs support a different set of audio formats to the HDMI inputs.

That is not the same as saying the digital inputs only support 2-channel / stereo.

[Ambleton]

Panic over - it was me being a complete 'tard in the setup menu and what the amp does with the optical in.

All five channels now operating.

Next job is to set up my sub properly and think about bi-amping my stereo pair which are currently bi-wired.

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

The problem is, while that amp was REALLY super nice 10 years ago - you want to be using HDMI audio rather than optical nowadays. The reason being only HDMI can handle higher resolution audio like True-HD, Dolby Digital plus etc. If you venture into 4K then the amp will fall on it's face pretty quickly unfortunately.


Been there, done that. Had a lovely amp but it just couldn't cut it.

[Ambleton]

I do agree if you're looking for the best of the best, but I'm not looking for the best of the best.

I'm looking for "very good" on a reasonable budget.

Now it's all operational and sounding phenomenal heres the full set up:

Equipment:
AVR - yamaha DSP-Z7
TV - LG 55" 4k HDR smart tv (cant remember model) 4 years old
Yamaha musiccast WXA-D10 (deezer hifi source)
PS3 (bluray, DVD, cd, sacd)
Stereo pair - Ruark prologue one
Centre - Ruark Dialogue one
Rears - Linn 5110 (although I do have a pair of ruark epilogues that i might swap in)
Sub - REL StrataV

Inputs to AVR:
- optical audio from TV
- HDMI from PS3 using an 8k ultra high speed cable
- RCA from music cast (QED performance graphite series)

Outputs from AVR:
- HDMI to TV using 8k ultra high speed cable

Cabling to speakers:
Stereo pair - VanDamme 4x4mm bi-amped
Centre - VanDamme 4x4mm bi-wired
Rears - QED 42 strand (IIRC)
Sub - VanDamme high level interconnect

IMO it sounds absolutely bloody great, but it's a HUGE upgrade as I was previously running a pair of castles as the stereo pair, no centre or sub and an old entry level denon AVR that cost me £120 in a richer sounds open box sale 5 years ago.

Costs:
Avr+sub+Ruarks = £580 (bought together as a second hand bundle from someone downsizing)
Ps3 + a load of used games and controllers = £80 second hand
Musiccast = £120 new
3x new tweeters for the front ruarks (one had failed) = £120 new
All cables = £160 new (some came with the bundle)
Linn rears = free - donated by my dad a few year back when he upgraded.

That brings my total to £1160 for all AV equipment (excluding TV)

Edited by Ambleton on Tuesday 11th February 11:15

Edited by Ambleton on Tuesday 11th February 12:17

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

Nice...but the optical is the weakest link. If you watch 4K Netflix you'll be missing out.
I mean it'll still be 5.1, but there definitely is a difference between optical and HDMI, HDMI ARC being the one you want (but sadly can't have by the sounds of it). Not just audio quality which is much of a muchness, but how good and immersive the surround actually sounds.
I'm by no means an audiophile or anything, but when I switched from optical (thinking that was better) to HDMI I was pleasantly surprised at the difference.

[Ambleton]

Dr Doofenshmirtz said:

Nice...but the optical is the weakest link. If you watch 4K Netflix you'll be missing out.
I mean it'll still be 5.1, but there definitely is a difference between optical and HDMI, HDMI ARC being the one you want (but sadly can't have by the sounds of it). Not just audio quality which is much of a muchness, but how good and immersive the surround actually sounds.
I'm by no means an audiophile or anything, but when I switched from optical (thinking that was better) to HDMI I was pleasantly surprised at the difference.

That surprises me actually. I would've (wrongly) assumed that optical would've been the preferred for audio transmittal.

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

Toslink has been around since the early 80's, and just doesn't have the bandwidth for lossless audio like DTS-HD etc. In fact it won't even carry Dolby Digital plus which you get on Netflix in HD.

[kingston12]

It's a shame that now that Smart TV interfaces are so good that it is impossible to get top quality sound out f them into an AVR.

ARC/CEC is a nightmare that doesn't work in either of my systems, and optical doesn't pass the full quality stream from all of the apps.

I use optical as the lesser of two evils, but that also means that I don't use the TVs built-in capabilities as often as I should and have to have other source boxes connected which shouldn't really be necessary.

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

You just need an amp that supports ARC and 4k pass through if you have a modern TV and want HD audio.

[Ambleton]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, a good amp with decent speakers, set up properly with an optical source will always sound better than a poor system with the best source possible.

A small part of me thinks that a lot of it is "emperors new clothes".

a £2k av amp from 9 years ago purchased for £200 with an optical source will/does sound MUCH MUCH better than a new £200 ARC enabled 4k AVR.

[kingston12]

Dr Doofenshmirtz said:

You just need an amp that supports ARC and 4k pass through if you have a modern TV and want HD audio.

Not for me. I've got a 2019 LG TV with a Marantz AVR and ARC just doesn't work at all. Plenty seem to have the same issue, although in fairness it does seem to be the implementation of ARC in Marantz and Denon AVRs that is the culprit.

Even if it did work it would mean leaving CEC switched on all the time which is a nightmare from a control perspective.

[SS2.]

ARC is a fickle beast - this is well known and well publicised.

It worked faultlessly with a Samsung TV and Yamaha AVR I used to have.

No such luck with the current Panasonic TV and Pioneer AVR.

Hardly disastrous, but it can be a pain at times.