Prometheus - Ridley Scott's 'Alien Prequel' (or not)...
Discussion
I thought it a cracking film.
As a f*ck you to religion, it's very ballsy. I think.
Scott has neve been a great actors director (Alien aside, but that's a very different film, made in a different era). I'd suggest going in expecting a character study would be misguided, the atmosphere is the main character.
The whole film seems to revolve around isolation, and the futility of looking to a higher power, or God. The opening sequence (which I didnt really enjoy all that much, with some silly CG) was of an engineer being left behind on Earth by his mates to create humanity (or so suggested) Then we're introduced to David, seemingly the happiest character in the film, who managed to enjoy the entire journey in total isolation (with a little help from Peter O'Toole, of course - the line "there is nothing in the desert, and no man needs nothing") Everyone else is of an insular personality type - only pairing off as a necessity - chasing a selfish goal. Rapace is (spoilers) looking to fill the void left behind by her dead mother, and remember she effectively gave birth to what will become the aliens we recognise, playing on the Ripley mother/daughter theme Aliens went for. The crew are after money, the main dude is after adding a couple years to his life. The film leaves one barren world to land on another, and when we're finally offered who our God is, we're told we're a genetic experiment they intended to destroy!
It's a goth's wet dream! And plays nicely on the line "in space, no one can hear you scream"
Technically, it is spellbinding - all bar the opening sequence. I've never been so impressed by modern special effects! Even the 3D worked amazingly, and I really really hate 3D, usually.
My little stream of concsious! Ha.
As a f*ck you to religion, it's very ballsy. I think.
Scott has neve been a great actors director (Alien aside, but that's a very different film, made in a different era). I'd suggest going in expecting a character study would be misguided, the atmosphere is the main character.
The whole film seems to revolve around isolation, and the futility of looking to a higher power, or God. The opening sequence (which I didnt really enjoy all that much, with some silly CG) was of an engineer being left behind on Earth by his mates to create humanity (or so suggested) Then we're introduced to David, seemingly the happiest character in the film, who managed to enjoy the entire journey in total isolation (with a little help from Peter O'Toole, of course - the line "there is nothing in the desert, and no man needs nothing") Everyone else is of an insular personality type - only pairing off as a necessity - chasing a selfish goal. Rapace is (spoilers) looking to fill the void left behind by her dead mother, and remember she effectively gave birth to what will become the aliens we recognise, playing on the Ripley mother/daughter theme Aliens went for. The crew are after money, the main dude is after adding a couple years to his life. The film leaves one barren world to land on another, and when we're finally offered who our God is, we're told we're a genetic experiment they intended to destroy!
It's a goth's wet dream! And plays nicely on the line "in space, no one can hear you scream"
Technically, it is spellbinding - all bar the opening sequence. I've never been so impressed by modern special effects! Even the 3D worked amazingly, and I really really hate 3D, usually.
My little stream of concsious! Ha.
MocMocaMoc said:
I thought it a cracking film.
As a f*ck you to religion, it's very ballsy. I think.
Scott has neve been a great actors director (Alien aside, but that's a very different film, made in a different era). I'd suggest going in expecting a character study would be misguided, the atmosphere is the main character.
The whole film seems to revolve around isolation, and the futility of looking to a higher power, or God. The opening sequence (which I didnt really enjoy all that much, with some silly CG) was of an engineer being left behind on Earth by his mates to create humanity (or so suggested) Then we're introduced to David, seemingly the happiest character in the film, who managed to enjoy the entire journey in total isolation (with a little help from Peter O'Toole, of course - the line "there is nothing in the desert, and no man needs nothing") Everyone else is of an insular personality type - only pairing off as a necessity - chasing a selfish goal. Rapace is (spoilers) looking to fill the void left behind by her dead mother, and remember she effectively gave birth to what will become the aliens we recognise, playing on the Ripley mother/daughter theme Aliens went for. The crew are after money, the main dude is after adding a couple years to his life. The film leaves one barren world to land on another, and when we're finally offered who our God is, we're told we're a genetic experiment they intended to destroy!
It's a goth's wet dream! And plays nicely on the line "in space, no one can hear you scream"
Technically, it is spellbinding - all bar the opening sequence. I've never been so impressed by modern special effects! Even the 3D worked amazingly, and I really really hate 3D, usually.
My little stream of concsious! Ha.
You appear to be reviewing the 'concept' rather than the 'execution' though IMHO.As a f*ck you to religion, it's very ballsy. I think.
Scott has neve been a great actors director (Alien aside, but that's a very different film, made in a different era). I'd suggest going in expecting a character study would be misguided, the atmosphere is the main character.
The whole film seems to revolve around isolation, and the futility of looking to a higher power, or God. The opening sequence (which I didnt really enjoy all that much, with some silly CG) was of an engineer being left behind on Earth by his mates to create humanity (or so suggested) Then we're introduced to David, seemingly the happiest character in the film, who managed to enjoy the entire journey in total isolation (with a little help from Peter O'Toole, of course - the line "there is nothing in the desert, and no man needs nothing") Everyone else is of an insular personality type - only pairing off as a necessity - chasing a selfish goal. Rapace is (spoilers) looking to fill the void left behind by her dead mother, and remember she effectively gave birth to what will become the aliens we recognise, playing on the Ripley mother/daughter theme Aliens went for. The crew are after money, the main dude is after adding a couple years to his life. The film leaves one barren world to land on another, and when we're finally offered who our God is, we're told we're a genetic experiment they intended to destroy!
It's a goth's wet dream! And plays nicely on the line "in space, no one can hear you scream"
Technically, it is spellbinding - all bar the opening sequence. I've never been so impressed by modern special effects! Even the 3D worked amazingly, and I really really hate 3D, usually.
My little stream of concsious! Ha.
Conceptually the film does work and if handled correctly could have been an excellent movie. The issues for me are that the script is generally very poor, as is the acting, the characters are all 1-D and lacking in any personality at all (other than David), there were far too may "What did they do that for?" moments, the soundtrack was jarring and at no point was there any tension or excitement.
rich1231 said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Is this the doc where it's all "and if we simply rotate the Pyramids by 37 degrees and then scale them up by 1.7 times, then move Ankor Wat 12 degrees of longitude and assume that Machu Pichu was originally built in New Mexico....then they all line up..."?
Worse, than that.It's ok though as Westy-Pre-Litard believes it.
Grow up.
Edited by SWoll on Tuesday 25th September 16:12
As I said I in my earlier post, as a scribbled down plot for a film, as the story it sounds great. The script though and final film doesn't do this great idea justice. It's simply a poorly written, directed and edited film.
"and when we're finally offered who our God is, we're told we're a genetic experiment they intended to destroy"
From the film Wiki: "Janek, speculates that the structure was part of an Engineer military installation that lost control of a virulent biological weapon, the dark liquid. He also determines that the underground structure is in fact a spacecraft. Weyland and a team return to the structure, and awaken the Engineer. David speaks to the Engineer, who responds by decapitating him and killing Weyland and his team. Shaw escapes the spacecraft as the Engineer activates it. She warns Janek that the Engineer is planning to release the liquid on Earth and convinces Janek to stop the spacecraft."
This whole part of the film is just daft - they couldn't come up with a better way of telling the story than Janek coming to conclusion that it's biological weapon and Shaw knowing that they plan to destroy the Earth? Those are some pretty big leaps of imagination on the part of the characters and even bigger leaps of faith being aske of the audience.
These are a couple of critcial reviews of the film which sum it up nicely:
Time Out London's Tom Huddleston wrote that "the photography is pleasingly crisp and the design is stunning", but that, "[t]he script feels flat ... the dialogue is lazy, while the plot, though crammed with striking concepts, simply fails to coalesce. After an enjoyable setup, the central act is baggy, confusing and, in places, slightly boring, while the climax has flash and fireworks but no real momentum."
[197] Emanuel Levy wrote that the writing was his only complaint about the film, which, he said, "is not only uneven, but promises more original ideas and thematic provocations than it can possibly deliver."
"and when we're finally offered who our God is, we're told we're a genetic experiment they intended to destroy"
From the film Wiki: "Janek, speculates that the structure was part of an Engineer military installation that lost control of a virulent biological weapon, the dark liquid. He also determines that the underground structure is in fact a spacecraft. Weyland and a team return to the structure, and awaken the Engineer. David speaks to the Engineer, who responds by decapitating him and killing Weyland and his team. Shaw escapes the spacecraft as the Engineer activates it. She warns Janek that the Engineer is planning to release the liquid on Earth and convinces Janek to stop the spacecraft."
This whole part of the film is just daft - they couldn't come up with a better way of telling the story than Janek coming to conclusion that it's biological weapon and Shaw knowing that they plan to destroy the Earth? Those are some pretty big leaps of imagination on the part of the characters and even bigger leaps of faith being aske of the audience.
These are a couple of critcial reviews of the film which sum it up nicely:
Time Out London's Tom Huddleston wrote that "the photography is pleasingly crisp and the design is stunning", but that, "[t]he script feels flat ... the dialogue is lazy, while the plot, though crammed with striking concepts, simply fails to coalesce. After an enjoyable setup, the central act is baggy, confusing and, in places, slightly boring, while the climax has flash and fireworks but no real momentum."
[197] Emanuel Levy wrote that the writing was his only complaint about the film, which, he said, "is not only uneven, but promises more original ideas and thematic provocations than it can possibly deliver."
TEKNOPUG said:
As I said I in my earlier post, as a scribbled down plot for a film, as the story it sounds great. The script though and final film doesn't do this great idea justice. It's simply a poorly written, directed and edited film.
"and when we're finally offered who our God is, we're told we're a genetic experiment they intended to destroy"
From the film Wiki: "Janek, speculates that the structure was part of an Engineer military installation that lost control of a virulent biological weapon, the dark liquid. He also determines that the underground structure is in fact a spacecraft. Weyland and a team return to the structure, and awaken the Engineer. David speaks to the Engineer, who responds by decapitating him and killing Weyland and his team. Shaw escapes the spacecraft as the Engineer activates it. She warns Janek that the Engineer is planning to release the liquid on Earth and convinces Janek to stop the spacecraft."
This whole film is just daft - they couldn't come up with a better way of telling the story than Janek coming to conclusion that it's biological weapon and Shaw knowing that they plan to destroy the Earth? Those are some pretty big leaps of imagination on the part of the characters and even bigger leaps of faith being aske of the audience.
These are a couple of critcial reviews of the film which sum it up nicely:
Time Out London's Tom Huddleston wrote that "the photography is pleasingly crisp and the design is stunning", but that, "[t]he script feels flat ... the dialogue is lazy, while the plot, though crammed with striking concepts, simply fails to coalesce. After an enjoyable setup, the central act is baggy, confusing and, in places, slightly boring, while the climax has flash and fireworks but no real momentum."
[197] Emanuel Levy wrote that the writing was his only complaint about the film, which, he said, "is not only uneven, but promises more original ideas and thematic provocations than it can possibly deliver."
From the very beginning the film has plot holes / unbelievable characters and story elements that you could drive a truck through. The contrivances needed to make the plot work remind me of a 2 year old furiously smashing a square peg into a round hole."and when we're finally offered who our God is, we're told we're a genetic experiment they intended to destroy"
From the film Wiki: "Janek, speculates that the structure was part of an Engineer military installation that lost control of a virulent biological weapon, the dark liquid. He also determines that the underground structure is in fact a spacecraft. Weyland and a team return to the structure, and awaken the Engineer. David speaks to the Engineer, who responds by decapitating him and killing Weyland and his team. Shaw escapes the spacecraft as the Engineer activates it. She warns Janek that the Engineer is planning to release the liquid on Earth and convinces Janek to stop the spacecraft."
This whole film is just daft - they couldn't come up with a better way of telling the story than Janek coming to conclusion that it's biological weapon and Shaw knowing that they plan to destroy the Earth? Those are some pretty big leaps of imagination on the part of the characters and even bigger leaps of faith being aske of the audience.
These are a couple of critcial reviews of the film which sum it up nicely:
Time Out London's Tom Huddleston wrote that "the photography is pleasingly crisp and the design is stunning", but that, "[t]he script feels flat ... the dialogue is lazy, while the plot, though crammed with striking concepts, simply fails to coalesce. After an enjoyable setup, the central act is baggy, confusing and, in places, slightly boring, while the climax has flash and fireworks but no real momentum."
[197] Emanuel Levy wrote that the writing was his only complaint about the film, which, he said, "is not only uneven, but promises more original ideas and thematic provocations than it can possibly deliver."
MocMocaMoc said:
I thought it a cracking film.
As a f*ck you to religion, it's very ballsy. I think.
Scott has neve been a great actors director (Alien aside, but that's a very different film, made in a different era). I'd suggest going in expecting a character study would be misguided, the atmosphere is the main character.
The whole film seems to revolve around isolation, and the futility of looking to a higher power, or God. The opening sequence (which I didnt really enjoy all that much, with some silly CG) was of an engineer being left behind on Earth by his mates to create humanity (or so suggested) Then we're introduced to David, seemingly the happiest character in the film, who managed to enjoy the entire journey in total isolation (with a little help from Peter O'Toole, of course - the line "there is nothing in the desert, and no man needs nothing") Everyone else is of an insular personality type - only pairing off as a necessity - chasing a selfish goal. Rapace is (spoilers) looking to fill the void left behind by her dead mother, and remember she effectively gave birth to what will become the aliens we recognise, playing on the Ripley mother/daughter theme Aliens went for. The crew are after money, the main dude is after adding a couple years to his life. The film leaves one barren world to land on another, and when we're finally offered who our God is, we're told we're a genetic experiment they intended to destroy!
It's a goth's wet dream! And plays nicely on the line "in space, no one can hear you scream"
Technically, it is spellbinding - all bar the opening sequence. I've never been so impressed by modern special effects! Even the 3D worked amazingly, and I really really hate 3D, usually.
My little stream of concsious! Ha.
I thought it was great too. Can't wait for the sequel and the extra half hour in the extended bits of the blurayAs a f*ck you to religion, it's very ballsy. I think.
Scott has neve been a great actors director (Alien aside, but that's a very different film, made in a different era). I'd suggest going in expecting a character study would be misguided, the atmosphere is the main character.
The whole film seems to revolve around isolation, and the futility of looking to a higher power, or God. The opening sequence (which I didnt really enjoy all that much, with some silly CG) was of an engineer being left behind on Earth by his mates to create humanity (or so suggested) Then we're introduced to David, seemingly the happiest character in the film, who managed to enjoy the entire journey in total isolation (with a little help from Peter O'Toole, of course - the line "there is nothing in the desert, and no man needs nothing") Everyone else is of an insular personality type - only pairing off as a necessity - chasing a selfish goal. Rapace is (spoilers) looking to fill the void left behind by her dead mother, and remember she effectively gave birth to what will become the aliens we recognise, playing on the Ripley mother/daughter theme Aliens went for. The crew are after money, the main dude is after adding a couple years to his life. The film leaves one barren world to land on another, and when we're finally offered who our God is, we're told we're a genetic experiment they intended to destroy!
It's a goth's wet dream! And plays nicely on the line "in space, no one can hear you scream"
Technically, it is spellbinding - all bar the opening sequence. I've never been so impressed by modern special effects! Even the 3D worked amazingly, and I really really hate 3D, usually.
My little stream of concsious! Ha.
rhinochopig said:
From the very beginning the film has plot holes / unbelievable characters and story elements that you could drive a truck through. The contrivances needed to make the plot work remind me of a 2 year old furiously smashing a square peg into a round hole.
Can't really argue with that.I was also reminded of that episode of Red Dwarf where Lister has the Luck Virus.
Everything was very much "what a stroke of luck!", from immediately finding the right place to land, through to triggering holo-playback to learn where the goo was, to finding out how that stupid flute worked, etc.
A little bit of exposition such as David saying he had extensively surveyed the planet for a month before waking them and had identified the landing site would have gone part-way to alleviating the first. 10 seconds of dialogue would have done it.
Everything was very much "what a stroke of luck!", from immediately finding the right place to land, through to triggering holo-playback to learn where the goo was, to finding out how that stupid flute worked, etc.
A little bit of exposition such as David saying he had extensively surveyed the planet for a month before waking them and had identified the landing site would have gone part-way to alleviating the first. 10 seconds of dialogue would have done it.
TEKNOPUG said:
It is full of WTFs. I'll have to watch it again but that was a very immediate impression I was getting whilst watching it.
Again, did no one read the script/ watch the filming and think "this is all very contrived, our viewers aren't idiots. I'm sure we can do better than this"?
And therein lies the problem. Sadly, today's film goers are mostly idiots; as I'm sure you've noticed during trips to cinema.Again, did no one read the script/ watch the filming and think "this is all very contrived, our viewers aren't idiots. I'm sure we can do better than this"?
To a generation weaned on 'Previously on xxx' and 'Coming up on xxx', as long as the latest sci-fi film has plenty of explosions and gore then they don't care if the plot, acting, or continuity is poor.
t film.
I watched this again last night and while initally seeing it at the cinema the film left me feeling underwhelmed, a second viewing did seem to bring things together in my head a little more.
There are plot holes, there is no denying that. I do feel that they are more apparent in this film because of people's expectations. When the original Alien came out, it got very mixed reviews. A lot of popular critics at the time called it a bog standard horror story, but in space. It was praised for it's visuals, but critised for a lack of a fresh story.
If you look back at the first Alien on it's own, ignoring all of the sequels, it is a very basic story about a bunch of people trapped inside something and being killed off one by one. There are hundreds of movies with this concept.
There was also no explanation as to what the big thing in the chair was, why there were eggs on the ship, who activated the alien distress signal, how did the company know about the aliens etc...
After a few years, a back story was created, people came up with their own theories and the film cemented it's place in film history.
I'm not saying Prometheus is going to do that, but you can see what Ridley was trying to do. He was trying to make a film that kind of replicated that 'what do you think' type of story. The prime example of this is Vickers in the film. There is a lot of questions about whether she is a robot and you never get a definite answer. Ridley even hinted during filming that there may actually be two robots on board.
I'm not saying this is a great film, but I think Ridley has left enough plot holes in place that sequels can refernce back to and people will go 'Oh yeah, that explains *****'.
The point regarding magically finding the alien base I didn't have a problem with to be honest. At the end of the film David says that there are other derelict ships on the planet, so I assume that there are quite a few of these bases scattered over the planet, but who knows?
The stupider holes are impossible to explain though. Knowing that it was a military installation; I guess you just have to assume the captain knows what he's going on about. The crews seemingly carefree attitude at ramming an alien spaceship and killing themselves. Poor writing for sure, some kind of scene that shows them concerned for the safety of their love ones back home and being a bit more somber about dying may have made a big difference...
Still, these are just some of my points on how I felt about the film. Hopefully Ridley will answer more in the sequel...
There are plot holes, there is no denying that. I do feel that they are more apparent in this film because of people's expectations. When the original Alien came out, it got very mixed reviews. A lot of popular critics at the time called it a bog standard horror story, but in space. It was praised for it's visuals, but critised for a lack of a fresh story.
If you look back at the first Alien on it's own, ignoring all of the sequels, it is a very basic story about a bunch of people trapped inside something and being killed off one by one. There are hundreds of movies with this concept.
There was also no explanation as to what the big thing in the chair was, why there were eggs on the ship, who activated the alien distress signal, how did the company know about the aliens etc...
After a few years, a back story was created, people came up with their own theories and the film cemented it's place in film history.
I'm not saying Prometheus is going to do that, but you can see what Ridley was trying to do. He was trying to make a film that kind of replicated that 'what do you think' type of story. The prime example of this is Vickers in the film. There is a lot of questions about whether she is a robot and you never get a definite answer. Ridley even hinted during filming that there may actually be two robots on board.
I'm not saying this is a great film, but I think Ridley has left enough plot holes in place that sequels can refernce back to and people will go 'Oh yeah, that explains *****'.
The point regarding magically finding the alien base I didn't have a problem with to be honest. At the end of the film David says that there are other derelict ships on the planet, so I assume that there are quite a few of these bases scattered over the planet, but who knows?
The stupider holes are impossible to explain though. Knowing that it was a military installation; I guess you just have to assume the captain knows what he's going on about. The crews seemingly carefree attitude at ramming an alien spaceship and killing themselves. Poor writing for sure, some kind of scene that shows them concerned for the safety of their love ones back home and being a bit more somber about dying may have made a big difference...
Still, these are just some of my points on how I felt about the film. Hopefully Ridley will answer more in the sequel...
garyhun said:
As a matter of interest do we KNOW that it was a military installation? I know they kept saying it was and that the black stuff was a WMD but I'm still questioning that - or did I miss something?
The characters worked out that it was a military installation and that it was a WMD intended to be sent to Earth............which was a pretty massive leap of imagination on their part, based on the evidence in front of them. Even more so that they should all agree on this and then all their future actions would be determined by this fact?Surely it would have been better to leave it with the crew not knowing what it is, which would have been more realistic and made more sense? It would also allow the audience to come up with their own ideas and conclusions. These questions could be later explored and answered in sequels or at least expanded upon. The script is very contrived in it's narration of the story.
TEKNOPUG said:
The characters worked out that it was a military installation and that it was a WMD intended to be sent to Earth............which was a pretty massive leap of imagination on their part, based on the evidence in front of them. Even more so that they should all agree on this and then all their future actions would be determined by this [i]fact[i/]?
Surely it would have been better to leave it with the crew not knowing what it is, which would have been more realistic and made more sense? It would also allow the audience to come up with their own ideas and conclusions. These questions could be later explored and answered in sequels or at least expanded upon. The script is very contrived in it's narration of the story.
But then how would they have justified the crew ramming the spaceship - big SFX finale - the spaceship rolling over blonde girl, and the Engineer impregnation scene. Like I said: like a 2 year old furiously ramming a square peg into a round hole.Surely it would have been better to leave it with the crew not knowing what it is, which would have been more realistic and made more sense? It would also allow the audience to come up with their own ideas and conclusions. These questions could be later explored and answered in sequels or at least expanded upon. The script is very contrived in it's narration of the story.
garyhun said:
As a matter of interest do we KNOW that it was a military installation? I know they kept saying it was and that the black stuff was a WMD but I'm still questioning that - or did I miss something?
It was implied by the captain, but never resolved.I guess the fact the black stuff mutated living things and the base had thousands of those canisters kind of pushed that theory.
There is a lot of stuff in the film that is either not answered or they hinted at its purpose and you just have to accept it. There are quite a few:
- Was the engineering definitely going to Earth to destroy it?
- What David said to the engineer to cause it to attack?
- Why the ancient drawings on Earth would direct you to an alien military installation?
- What killed the engineers?
- Why did David infect Holloway?
- Is Vickers an android?
It's just occured to me. With regards to the engineers going to destroy Earth and the reasoning behind it, could it be possible the engineers purposely left markings on Earth that lead to the planet so that once humanity reached the techological level required to get there, it was time to 'sterilise the petri dish'?
Assuming it was all just an 'because we can' experiment, they wouldn't want humanity evolving too far that they lost control so they set it all up and used reaching the planet as a benchmark to judge when it was time to kill humanity before it went too far?
Another theory anyway....
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