Gold rush

Author
Discussion

trickywoo

11,706 posts

229 months

Tuesday 20th March 2018
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I find Dustin highly unlikeable.

With a likeable character or a proper villain it would be a lot more watchable.

Ructions

4,705 posts

120 months

Tuesday 20th March 2018
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Zad said:
2.5 ounces?! At a rough calculation that is about 20 minutes worth of production at the Schnabel mine. I'm glad I didn't invest much time in that series then. Parker's dog picks up more than that with his paws. I guess that shows just how much money the producers pump into a show if they can make that farce profitable for the people concerned.
Todd allegedly bankrolled the entire operation, which speaks volumes.

They were just about to hit the pay streak when rain literally stopped play, all pretty obviously set up to lead to another series, but I doubt the viewing figures are great.

Agreed on Dustin, a very unlikeable character and a typical spoiled child.

Zad

12,695 posts

235 months

Tuesday 20th March 2018
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I didn't like Dustin in the main series, he seemed more interested in just being nasty to people than actually making money. Tony Beets is a pretty good villain, screwing Parker for double royalties and treating those two old guys like he did a couple of seasons ago when they were moving that dredge. At least he can actually walk the walk though, and it seems like Parker is finally getting his freedom - Tony is really going to miss his 20% of 5000 ounces.

I'm sure the pay streak they conveniently found at the end of the season will turn out to be not much. It never has in previous series anyway.

youngsyr

14,742 posts

191 months

Wednesday 21st March 2018
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Ructions said:
Dustin and Fred finished the season on a mighty 2.5 ounces, but they are coming back for another season.
It's pretty clear that they were playing at mining that river and got the TV company to pay for it.

If they were serious they would have brought heavy machinery in, clearing a path as they went and damned and diverted the river.

That tiny little dredge was a joke.



The Moose

22,821 posts

208 months

Wednesday 21st March 2018
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youngsyr said:
It's pretty clear that they were playing at mining that river and got the TV company to pay for it.

If they were serious they would have brought heavy machinery in, clearing a path as they went and damned and diverted the river.

That tiny little dredge was a joke.
I don’t believe you’re allowed to divert a river as such. Didn’t watch their spin off - was it worth it?

Shame Tod and co aren’t back next year!

TEKNOPUG

18,844 posts

204 months

Wednesday 21st March 2018
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Zad said:
At least he can actually walk the walk though, and it seems like Parker is finally getting his freedom - Tony is really going to miss his 20% of 5000 ounces.
It's Tony's land though and the gold isn't going anywhere. So he can just find someone else to mine it @ 20% or do it himself in future.

The whole royalty deal seems odd though. It's all based on trust it would appear. Sure Tony thinks that Parker should mine 5k in a season and any less than that and he'll kick Parker off. But he's taking Parker's word that he washed 6.5k and not 9k - unless he's present during every clean-up from start to finish.

youngsyr

14,742 posts

191 months

Wednesday 21st March 2018
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The Moose said:
youngsyr said:
It's pretty clear that they were playing at mining that river and got the TV company to pay for it.

If they were serious they would have brought heavy machinery in, clearing a path as they went and damned and diverted the river.

That tiny little dredge was a joke.
I don’t believe you’re allowed to divert a river as such. Didn’t watch their spin off - was it worth it?

Shame Tod and co aren’t back next year!
Pretty sure they showed part of the river where the old timers had blasted through rock to divert the river?

Also, you wouldn't have to divert it through the landscape, with a bit of engineering nouse they could pipe it around the tiny area where they were working.

The fact that they spent all day and $'000s trying to move a rock the size of a foot stool tells you all you need to know about how serious they were.

youngsyr

14,742 posts

191 months

Wednesday 21st March 2018
quotequote all
TEKNOPUG said:
Zad said:
At least he can actually walk the walk though, and it seems like Parker is finally getting his freedom - Tony is really going to miss his 20% of 5000 ounces.
It's Tony's land though and the gold isn't going anywhere. So he can just find someone else to mine it @ 20% or do it himself in future.

The whole royalty deal seems odd though. It's all based on trust it would appear. Sure Tony thinks that Parker should mine 5k in a season and any less than that and he'll kick Parker off. But he's taking Parker's word that he washed 6.5k and not 9k - unless he's present during every clean-up from start to finish.
That's what irks me about how the show presents the Parker/Beets relationship - Parker tried to buy land similar to what Tony has leased him and was quoted $millions, so why should Tony give him it for peanuts?

Tony is no saint for sure and he has royally screwed people over (including Parker with the unsigned contract) but let's not also forget that Tony acted as Parker's mentor for at least a season and Parker was a totally green miner when Tony took him under his wing.

As for the royalty deal, it seems pretty straight forward, Tony knows roughly how much gold is in the ground from his own tests, so it's just a simple calculation of yards run (which he can visually check by the size of the hole) multiplied by expected Oz per yard.

I'm sure some miners aren't totally upfront with the amounts recovered, but you're not going to be under producing consistently and expect to retain the lease and a good name in the small mining community.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Wednesday 21st March 2018
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Let's not forget the controls around actually cleaning/selling the gold...

I'd suggest it's really rather difficult to squirrel gold away in anything like the quantities to make the risk worthwhile.

Although I've always been a tad suspicious of Todd's cleanups. Parker said something on the after show once about the 'behaviours' that giving your crew a cut of the gold rather than a salary (with perhaps a bonus) might develop...

TEKNOPUG

18,844 posts

204 months

Wednesday 21st March 2018
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youngsyr said:
The Moose said:
youngsyr said:
It's pretty clear that they were playing at mining that river and got the TV company to pay for it.

If they were serious they would have brought heavy machinery in, clearing a path as they went and damned and diverted the river.

That tiny little dredge was a joke.
I don’t believe you’re allowed to divert a river as such. Didn’t watch their spin off - was it worth it?

Shame Tod and co aren’t back next year!
Pretty sure they showed part of the river where the old timers had blasted through rock to divert the river?

Also, you wouldn't have to divert it through the landscape, with a bit of engineering nouse they could pipe it around the tiny area where they were working.

The fact that they spent all day and $'000s trying to move a rock the size of a foot stool tells you all you need to know about how serious they were.
I don't know how practical it would be to divert the river, given the location (getting machinery to it) and the narrowness and steepness of the gorge, making the the speed and height of the creek very turbulent. Given how much gold the old timers made when they diverted the river, you have to wonder why the didn't repeat the process elsewhere? I suspect that they found the one location where it was practical to do so and decided that it wasn't possible/profitable to repeat it elsewhere.

I guess what you can say is that they have spent a season figuring out how to do it. If they returned and begun as they finished - proper cables set up, better diversion/protection in place, rock removal equipment in place etc, I'm sure it could be profitable. But they are always at the mercy of the weather/creek so it's will be a big gamble every time. Which probably explains why no one else has invested time/money into doing it. Would be interested to see the whole of Dustin's claim and whether there is a better stretch of creek to work on.

The Moose

22,821 posts

208 months

Wednesday 21st March 2018
quotequote all
youngsyr said:
The Moose said:
youngsyr said:
It's pretty clear that they were playing at mining that river and got the TV company to pay for it.

If they were serious they would have brought heavy machinery in, clearing a path as they went and damned and diverted the river.

That tiny little dredge was a joke.
I don’t believe you’re allowed to divert a river as such. Didn’t watch their spin off - was it worth it?

Shame Tod and co aren’t back next year!
Pretty sure they showed part of the river where the old timers had blasted through rock to divert the river?

Also, you wouldn't have to divert it through the landscape, with a bit of engineering nouse they could pipe it around the tiny area where they were working.

The fact that they spent all day and $'000s trying to move a rock the size of a foot stool tells you all you need to know about how serious they were.
That is just what I thought - maybe I'm wrong...or maybe you can get a permit to do so?

Also looks like Rick isn't fully coming back next year...

Condi

17,089 posts

170 months

Friday 23rd March 2018
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You would never be allowed to divert /block the river I wouldnt have thought under environmental and ecological protection.



Finally got round to the final round of Gold Rush - Todds operation was a joke in the end, no wonder he's not coming back next year. Also not a great advert for Volvo that at one point 3 of their 4 rock trucks were stopped waiting for spares, and by the sounds of things all were drive-shaft issues. Tony and Parker did a decent job and actually look like professional miners earning enough money to carry on without the TV money.


The Moose

22,821 posts

208 months

Friday 23rd March 2018
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Condi said:
Tony and Parker did a decent job and actually look like professional miners earning enough money to carry on without the TV money.
I'd really like to see an accurate P&L Statements for each operation.

I would love to know what it really cost to get 6,000oz of gold out the ground!

rgw2012

598 posts

142 months

Friday 23rd March 2018
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The Moose said:
I'd really like to see an accurate P&L Statements for each operation.

I would love to know what it really cost to get 6,000oz of gold out the ground!
I seem to recall Tony talking about costs and returns when he was discussing his dredging last season. I think it worked out about 80%/20% cost to profit ratio mining in a fashion like Parker's operation but the opposite using the gredge (ie 20%/80%). So on that basis if gold is about $1200 per ounce, for arguments sake, Parker would be getting $1.4m profit having incurred $5.76m in operating costs. Tony's dredging on those sums, plus his royalties from Parker, makes it a very worthwhile investment for the future and explains how it is so easy for him to spend so much money on barges, equipment, dredge upgrades, planes etc. I know the operating costs for Parker would flesh out as the initial capital expenditure is amortised over several seasons, so there would actually be more profit than the basic sums show, but it's a high level indicator.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Friday 23rd March 2018
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Parker has done some good work on reducing his costs - the mega conveyor that pretty much eliminates rock trucks is a very nice touch.

The costs for equipment are pretty big - both initial procurement then maintenance.

youngsyr

14,742 posts

191 months

Friday 23rd March 2018
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Sway said:
Parker has done some good work on reducing his costs - the mega conveyor that pretty much eliminates rock trucks is a very nice touch.

The costs for equipment are pretty big - both initial procurement then maintenance.
Except that, as we've discussed before, the crews aren't paying anything like the full cost of hiring/buying their equipment. Volvo sponsor the show and are no doubt providing a lot of the kit and parts for nothing.



youngsyr

14,742 posts

191 months

Friday 23rd March 2018
quotequote all
rgw2012 said:
The Moose said:
I'd really like to see an accurate P&L Statements for each operation.

I would love to know what it really cost to get 6,000oz of gold out the ground!
I seem to recall Tony talking about costs and returns when he was discussing his dredging last season. I think it worked out about 80%/20% cost to profit ratio mining in a fashion like Parker's operation but the opposite using the gredge (ie 20%/80%). So on that basis if gold is about $1200 per ounce, for arguments sake, Parker would be getting $1.4m profit having incurred $5.76m in operating costs. Tony's dredging on those sums, plus his royalties from Parker, makes it a very worthwhile investment for the future and explains how it is so easy for him to spend so much money on barges, equipment, dredge upgrades, planes etc. I know the operating costs for Parker would flesh out as the initial capital expenditure is amortised over several seasons, so there would actually be more profit than the basic sums show, but it's a high level indicator.
20% profit sounds about right - it would explain why Parker was so reluctant to mine at Tony's higher royalty rate and why he said he couldn't make money doing it.

The Moose

22,821 posts

208 months

Friday 23rd March 2018
quotequote all
rgw2012 said:
The Moose said:
I'd really like to see an accurate P&L Statements for each operation.

I would love to know what it really cost to get 6,000oz of gold out the ground!
I seem to recall Tony talking about costs and returns when he was discussing his dredging last season. I think it worked out about 80%/20% cost to profit ratio mining in a fashion like Parker's operation but the opposite using the gredge (ie 20%/80%). So on that basis if gold is about $1200 per ounce, for arguments sake, Parker would be getting $1.4m profit having incurred $5.76m in operating costs. Tony's dredging on those sums, plus his royalties from Parker, makes it a very worthwhile investment for the future and explains how it is so easy for him to spend so much money on barges, equipment, dredge upgrades, planes etc. I know the operating costs for Parker would flesh out as the initial capital expenditure is amortised over several seasons, so there would actually be more profit than the basic sums show, but it's a high level indicator.
I take everything Tony says with a big dollop of salt!!

h0b0

7,559 posts

195 months

Sunday 25th March 2018
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On tonight’s gold rush white water they reveal that Fred legally abandoned Dustin at the age of 15 through emancipation. That might be the source of some of the quirks in their relationship.

youngsyr

14,742 posts

191 months

Sunday 25th March 2018
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h0b0 said:
On tonight’s gold rush white water they reveal that Fred legally abandoned Dustin at the age of 15 through emancipation. That might be the source of some of the quirks in their relationship.
Oh wow, now that's an interesting twist!