Harry's Garage - YouTube
Discussion
Fessia fancier said:
FiF said:
Re the end of term review on the BMW X5 x45e PHEV.
Bearing in mind that Harry M managed an average mpg of 60.3 iirc and over the total miles managed 4500 ish on electricity alone, how much relevance should we place on the various surveys on such as fleet users which claim poor fuel consumption and 3x more emissions than official figures. eg recent article in DT link
Surely it's not the fault of the vehicle but the users? Whilst I'm not a fan of what can be called compliance vehicles, ie those designed to meet some largely artificial regulations in order to save tax eg BIK, 60 mpg from a mahoosive petrol SUV has to be impressive, especially with that level of performance. Though staggered by that comment on why the charge rate is so slow, Germany being a bit backward there.
Still question the mechanical sense of a really complicated vehicle, far more complicated than simple ICE or pure EV, especially with the lack of mechanical sympathy with those frequent cold engine starts. Recall back in the day the extreme engine wear on Fords used on police traffic duties that would sit up on a motorway perch watching the traffic and then fired up and away on full welly on a grade 1 call, overhead cam wear was a real issue. Just feels wrong, have driven a couple of hybrids, both Toyotas by chance, maybe it's my driving style but the number of engine stops and starts was beyond surprising.
Anyway seems as usual Harry M cuts through the crap issued by various vested interests. Impressive as it is, funnily enough wouldn't buy it for the same reason as in the video, getting muck on trousers. Grrrr.
What I wondered about was whether the 60-odd MPG took into account the mileage on electricity. In other words, was it 60MPG when the engine was running and the electric mileage was separate, or was the total cost the petrol for the 4,500 miles at (say) 30 MPG plus electricity for the balance of say 4,500 miles. 30 MPG for the actual petrol bit in that car would be pretty good I guess anyway.Bearing in mind that Harry M managed an average mpg of 60.3 iirc and over the total miles managed 4500 ish on electricity alone, how much relevance should we place on the various surveys on such as fleet users which claim poor fuel consumption and 3x more emissions than official figures. eg recent article in DT link
Surely it's not the fault of the vehicle but the users? Whilst I'm not a fan of what can be called compliance vehicles, ie those designed to meet some largely artificial regulations in order to save tax eg BIK, 60 mpg from a mahoosive petrol SUV has to be impressive, especially with that level of performance. Though staggered by that comment on why the charge rate is so slow, Germany being a bit backward there.
Still question the mechanical sense of a really complicated vehicle, far more complicated than simple ICE or pure EV, especially with the lack of mechanical sympathy with those frequent cold engine starts. Recall back in the day the extreme engine wear on Fords used on police traffic duties that would sit up on a motorway perch watching the traffic and then fired up and away on full welly on a grade 1 call, overhead cam wear was a real issue. Just feels wrong, have driven a couple of hybrids, both Toyotas by chance, maybe it's my driving style but the number of engine stops and starts was beyond surprising.
Anyway seems as usual Harry M cuts through the crap issued by various vested interests. Impressive as it is, funnily enough wouldn't buy it for the same reason as in the video, getting muck on trousers. Grrrr.
The answer may well be in the video, but I am not sure.
As mentioned by another he presents some calcs which shows what the electricity mileage has costed based on 14p/kWh iirc. It's all in the video.
Harry’s parking and charging arrangements means it’s very convenient for him to plug it in every time he parks up at home.
I suspect even the smallest inconvenience means that lots of people often can’t be bothered to plug in because it’s dark/raining/only at home for a couple of hours etc.
I suspect even the smallest inconvenience means that lots of people often can’t be bothered to plug in because it’s dark/raining/only at home for a couple of hours etc.
it seems to me that Harry averaged 30mpg on the ICE engine and 4500 miles on electricity. Don't know the financial sums but it seems a bit cheeky doubling that 30mpg because he did half his miles on electric only. need to work out the differential in cost for the two fuels and translate the electric cost to petrol perhaps?
BTW I would like to achieve 30mpg in my 440i. With cold weather and short runs I am lucky to get 26 atm.
BTW I would like to achieve 30mpg in my 440i. With cold weather and short runs I am lucky to get 26 atm.
billshoreham said:
it seems to me that Harry averaged 30mpg on the ICE engine and 4500 miles on electricity. Don't know the financial sums but it seems a bit cheeky doubling that 30mpg because he did half his miles on electric only. need to work out the differential in cost for the two fuels and translate the electric cost to petrol perhaps?
Unless I dreamed it, that's exactly what he did, in the video being discussed.Doofus said:
billshoreham said:
it seems to me that Harry averaged 30mpg on the ICE engine and 4500 miles on electricity. Don't know the financial sums but it seems a bit cheeky doubling that 30mpg because he did half his miles on electric only. need to work out the differential in cost for the two fuels and translate the electric cost to petrol perhaps?
Unless I dreamed it, that's exactly what he did, in the video being discussed.4951.8 miles on electric 33.8kWh/100km which at 14p/kWh he calcs to 74mpg @ 125p/litre
19:30 on the video
Not sure where I got 60.3 from earlier, but still impressive, I get only low 30s on my diesel LR on a run, low 20s pratting about, slowly, on the local lanes.
Edited by FiF on Tuesday 2nd March 20:48
billshoreham said:
it seems to me that Harry averaged 30mpg on the ICE engine and 4500 miles on electricity. Don't know the financial sums but it seems a bit cheeky doubling that 30mpg because he did half his miles on electric only. need to work out the differential in cost for the two fuels and translate the electric cost to petrol perhaps?
BTW I would like to achieve 30mpg in my 440i. With cold weather and short runs I am lucky to get 26 atm.
MPG is never a worry if you never calculate it. I think it would suck pleasure to do so. I did it once on an Overfinch Classic and worked out I was averaging 4.5 but have made a point in general to never do so. I only did it on the Rangie as I was intrigued by the gauge falling while in a traffic jam. BTW I would like to achieve 30mpg in my 440i. With cold weather and short runs I am lucky to get 26 atm.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Tuesday 2nd March 20:41
DonkeyApple said:
MPG is never a worry if you never calculate it. I think it would suck pleasure to do so. I did it once on an Overfinch Classic and worked out I was averaging 4.5 but have made a point in general to never do so. I only did it on the Rangie as I was intrigued by the gauge falling while in a traffic jam.
I sometimes do 30k miles a year in normal times, I would like to know if it was costing me a smidge under £40,000 a year in fuel.
InitialDave said:
DonkeyApple said:
I was averaging 4.5 but have made a point in general to never do so. I only did it on the Rangie as I was intrigued by the gauge falling while in a traffic jam.
Top man! I think the best I've ever managed was double that, and I thought that was getting noticeable!Fessia fancier said:
Figures like that are pretty impressive on the road. I have only managed to get close to that on track (where you calculate to ensure you are not going to run out before the race is over, rather than any other reason).
V8 SUVs and urban commutes are an ill-advised combination!InitialDave said:
DonkeyApple said:
I was averaging 4.5 but have made a point in general to never do so. I only did it on the Rangie as I was intrigued by the gauge falling while in a traffic jam.
Top man! I think the best I've ever managed was double that, and I thought that was getting noticeable!I used to use the car for commuting from Hampstead to Southwark. It was a lovely thing but you'd literally watch the needle drop when crawling up Haverstock Hill. But on the weekend run out to here it would bang in an excellent 16mpg at 90. Happy days.
M4SER said:
As for the L322, all I can say is I'm sorry you picked one that didn't behave. Ours continues to cost us just routine servicing, despite having covered 120k miles and having a warranty on it that finally runs out in April 2021. Maybe that'll be when it will all go wrong!
This is rather off on a tangent, but I notice your L322 wears a “1” suffix plate, as does your Espada and R107. Is there a story behind the plates, perhaps from EVO days? Only asking as I’m a plate nerd! 
Muddle238 said:
M4SER said:
As for the L322, all I can say is I'm sorry you picked one that didn't behave. Ours continues to cost us just routine servicing, despite having covered 120k miles and having a warranty on it that finally runs out in April 2021. Maybe that'll be when it will all go wrong!
This is rather off on a tangent, but I notice your L322 wears a “1” suffix plate, as does your Espada and R107. Is there a story behind the plates, perhaps from EVO days? Only asking as I’m a plate nerd! The 1 is the first number in the particular sequence RUX from August 1967 (E suffix year) on the R107 (just had to watch the film on that, lovely car - now looking at SL Shop prices...). Obviously when not a dateless number, 1 is the one to have...
DonkeyApple said:
MPG is never a worry if you never calculate it. I think it would suck pleasure to do so. I did it once on an Overfinch Classic and worked out I was averaging 4.5 but have made a point in general to never do so. I only did it on the Rangie as I was intrigued by the gauge falling while in a traffic jam.
I agree there is no pleasure to be gained from calculating MPG. However, I did find there was a tedium in owning a 4.2SC L322 Range Rover. It was the amount of time one spent in petrol stations. No matter how recently one filled it, it always seemed to need another tank-load.DonkeyApple said:
MPG is never a worry if you never calculate it. I think it would suck pleasure to do so. I did it once on an Overfinch Classic and worked out I was averaging 4.5 but have made a point in general to never do so. I only did it on the Rangie as I was intrigued by the gauge falling while in a traffic jam.
Blimey. I used to run a fleet of 44t trucks for a living and none of them managed to consume like that!Edited by DonkeyApple on Tuesday 2nd March 20:41
AstonZagato said:
I agree there is no pleasure to be gained from calculating MPG. However, I did find there was a tedium in owning a 4.2SC L322 Range Rover. It was the amount of time one spent in petrol stations. No matter how recently one filled it, it always seemed to need another tank-load.
Exactly. I remember discussing this with Jonathan Palmer once, when he rocked up in his then new S320 CDI S-Class, where we agreed having a car with a decent range was actually worth a premium and should be seen as an important feature when you're in the market for a car you're going to do decent mileage in. It's why I see the cars like the Taycan and Audi RS GT as fundamentally flawed because they struggle to do more than 250 miles 'on a tank'. That's okay in a smaller car doing local trips but not good enough in that sector of the market they are competing in and because they take that much longer to 'refill' than a premium ICE car, they actually need to have a better range than an ICE car. Until they do, I've decided to stay away and stick with ICE or PHEV for the premium family car.
It's the issue with the iPace. It's a lovely car but too expensive as a local runabout but won't get you to London and back without stopping at Oxford or hunting for a charger in Town. However, for suburbia they are perfect, especially if your weekend runout is just to somewhere that has charging. It's also where the vast bulk of the customers are to be found at that £75-£125k point. However, the risk of PHEV if you're London centric in your travels is that it seems likely that legislation may well move with regards to minimum EV ranges for charge exemptions and access?
M4SER said:
Exactly. I remember discussing this with Jonathan Palmer once, when he rocked up in his then new S320 CDI S-Class, where we agreed having a car with a decent range was actually worth a premium and should be seen as an important feature when you're in the market for a car you're going to do decent mileage in.
I loved the X350 XJ V6 I had for that reason - 30mpg in an XJ was a bit of a revelation 15 years ago, all the comfort but 100 miles more range than the V8. Perfect for the long drive home from a race meeting when you just want to point the car up the M1 and get homeWith the farming hat on (no, let's not go there), I'm interested as to how good the Defender P400e might be. It won't be as good as the BMW in so many areas, but on the farm it ought to do the trick.
But then the devil on one's shoulder somehow leads the fingers on the trackpad astray and I find myself looking at a V8 Carpathian and start thinking, last of a breed.....
But then the devil on one's shoulder somehow leads the fingers on the trackpad astray and I find myself looking at a V8 Carpathian and start thinking, last of a breed.....
M4SER said:
I knew all about the rust when I bought the car. I was about to back out when I realised it was bad, despite having a so called bare metal respray just 1200miles and 16 years previously. I then discovered in the extensive history file it was the actual Fulvia Zagato I had seen outside my parents house way back in the seventies, so I couldn't resist and we ended up doing a deal at a much reduced price.
I could have carried on running around in it as the rust isn't in an important structural area (the chassis around the spring hangers is fine) but it still niggled. I'm pressing ahead with the body restoration after we discovered the original orange paint during the strip down and I want to get it back to how I first saw it all those years ago in Birkenhead!
M4SER, I blame/thank you for buying my S2 Sport, only a 1300, after seeing your YouTube videos it reminded me I’d always promised myself one. Looks like it was rustproofed from new; fingers crossed. I could have carried on running around in it as the rust isn't in an important structural area (the chassis around the spring hangers is fine) but it still niggled. I'm pressing ahead with the body restoration after we discovered the original orange paint during the strip down and I want to get it back to how I first saw it all those years ago in Birkenhead!
Like you I saw one when I was about 11 years old pulling into the school car park I tried to talk my father into one but he got a used DB5 instead (not the silly prices they are now). It’s the car I enjoy most of my classics. I’ll be taking it to Day and Whites when the country opens up(currently having to isolate).
Thank for your enthusiasm and real world reviews.
Edited by Olivers dad on Thursday 4th March 21:59
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