24 Hours in Police Custody: Ch4

[Randy Winkman]

thetapeworm said:

Warhavernet said:

Not really sure that showing a senior female scene of crime officer blubbing on camera gives us confidence that the most suitable officers have attained senior roles through their talent, professionalism and ability, diversity placements writ large I fear.

Wow.

Having read some more detailed information about this case before and after this was on I can't even begin to imagine what the scene inside there was like, they skimmed over the level of brutality dished out on this last victim, his brother. Even discounting the wounds and subsequent "mess" a shotgun is going to make at close range there was further escalation beyond this involving a knife.

Anyone who witnessed what happened there, to children, and wasn't affected is likely to already be subscribed to the very websites this individual was numbed by.

Good point. I asked higher up if anyone wants to explain to me what they get out of looking at the (legal) websites that the killer did.

[LosingGrip]

Warhavernet said:

Not really sure that showing a senior female scene of crime officer blubbing on camera gives us confidence that the most suitable officers have attained senior roles through their talent, professionalism and ability, diversity placements writ large I fear.

You'll have a fit when you find out that I cried following the death of a three year old at a crash and have had councilling sessions as a result. Or as im only a PC its allowed?

Just think of everything that they have seen over their careers.

[rohrl]

Human emotions are woke and weak. If you can’t watch a baby being murdered without feeling nothing at all you’re a pathetic maggot.

Is that about right?

[Sheets Tabuer]

Greendubber said:

milesgiles said:

Galibier said:

Warhavernet said:

Not really sure that showing a senior female scene of crime officer blubbing on camera gives us confidence that the most suitable officers have attained senior roles through their talent, professionalism and ability, diversity placements writ large I fear.

Give your head a wobble. Try and imagine the scene they witnessed. Most have kids of their own.

I d have put it differently but this is correct

Do you want your doctor to burst into tears when he tells you you have cancer?

Yes, because that's just the same as seeing 2 children and their mother with their brains blown out.

Nice one.

Two things my Mrs does when she comes home from work that lets me know I should leave her alone for a bit.

1) Goes upstairs, closes the bedroom door and sits in silence on the bed.
2) Pours a glass of wine and goes and sits in the garden round the back of the garage and has a cry.

Sometimes she tells me what she saw that day, sometimes she doesn't.

I don't think they employ sociopaths.

[timbob]

I didn’t see any of the cops “blubbing” whilst at the scene - more the numb shock of realising what had just happened, and seeing what was behind the door.

The teary moment from the inspector (she’s not a SOCO) clearly occurred in the post production interview, which has obviously been filmed some time after the incident whilst discussing what went on for the documentary.

As for the nonsense posted above about her being a woke/diversity/out of her depth appointment to a senior rank… absolute tosh. She’s a thoroughly decent person, capable and experienced boss, who absolutely deserves the rank.

[Megaflow]

I can’t believe, actually on second thoughts, given the state in the NHS in this country I not even slightly surprised he hadn’t been diagnosed.

Anyway, while 49 years is a long old stretch, one I can’t see him making the end of with his personality inside, I am surprised he didn’t get a whole life term.

[WilliamWoollard]

It does make you wonder what exactly one needs to do to get a whole life term.

[timbob]

WilliamWoollard said:

It does make you wonder what exactly one needs to do to get a whole life term.

He was under 21 at the time of committing the offences - that’s the reason it wasn’t a whole life term AFAIK. It’s in the sentencing guidelines.

[thetapeworm]

WilliamWoollard said:

It does make you wonder what exactly one needs to do to get a whole life term.

It went to the appeal court under the Unduly Lenient Sentences scheme earlier in the year, they asked for a whole-life order to be imposed, it was rejected.

This is despite him showing no remorse in prison, thriving in the attention and suggesting if he was let out it would be the responsibility of others to prevent him having another go

[fridaypassion]

He has to get past a parole board so if he ever does get out he will be over 70 probably still old enough to do harm though he was a proper phyco this kid!

[C5_Steve]

rohrl said:

kestral said:

Never ask a question unless you know the answer. I will not embarrass you by answering that question because I know the point you are making.

She needs to be emptying the bins not involved in tripple murders, she is clearly unstable and not suited to that type of work. It is crazy that other professional officers should have to work alongside someone who is blubbering away . How the hell can anyone see it any otherway. This is a job as a police officer involving violent crime, not looking after a childrens playgound.

Laughable and disgraceful.

Hopefully Nigel will makes sure we end up with police officers that are that are capable of doing the job as opposed to selecting a police force of diverse individuals.

God will we ever get back to sanity! Keep going Donald.

Just when I thought his posts couldn't get any worse. A never ending stream of pure misinformation.

Anyway, I finished the second episode last night. Not sure it needed to be a double bill as not much investigation was needed really. That said, it was a great insight into some of the truly disturbed people the police have to deal with. I think these cases are worse when there's no obvious radical ideology, all the more unsettling when someone with no clear life event trigger/trauma just come around to the idea to commit these crimes.

As others have said, the gap in the system to be able to check gun licenses is staggering. I know what goes into granting them so the fact there isn't already an electronic database available to vendors with photographic ID attached is almost unbelievable

[airsafari87]

C5_Steve said:

all the more unsettling when someone with no clear life event trigger/trauma

It seemed like there was something that happened in June which became a trigger, it just wasn’t elaborated on or explained any further in the programme.

The police said his internet history had a marked change in June and had been relatively normal up until that time.

The killer himself alluded to an event in June that meant him no longer having the 15 friends he previously had.

[Don1]

The bad: A lot of padding. That should have been one episode.

The horrific: The crime and planned crimes were just…. I wanted a black handkerchief brought out for sentencing. Abhorrent.

The stupid: The police wanting the law changed instead of going for a simpler solution. Herts Beds and Bucks firearms are bottom of the league table. I know someone who it took over a year to get a renewal, not even a new license. Making more work for them isn’t going to help.
Changing the license to one with stamped foil, holograms or the like? Charging extra for that? As a shotgun and firearm owner in the district - I would put my hand in my pocket more for that approach.

I’d like to make it clear that this is not a criticism of the firearms team, god knows they have enough pressure and work. To increase their workload isn’t the answer.

Making it difficult/impossible to fake a SGC at home would be the first step.

[Mojooo]

I was thinking this might be a good example for mass surveillance of internet usage.

Save me the VPN argument!

[Tom1312]

I know Kestrel is a troll account, but I'm saddened to see some other people holding a similar sentiment.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being human. I've seen some horrible things and my spicy déjà vu playlist is up there, but kids, just awful.

I've got 3 young kids and my heart drops just hearing jobs with little ones involved over the air.

Having been to CPR on infants or other horrible things, I can totally get having a tearing up or working in cold shock at the time.

And apparently I'm a double hard ARV officer.

[Freakuk]

Finally caught up on episode 2 last night so didn't want to read this thread until then.

There's several failings here, his school - I would hope he was at a school that could help him with his needs, home life - we'll never know unfortunately what he was like at home, did he just sit in his room all night, most probably and then have unfiltered access to the internet. And finally the gun laws, process, the seller was clearly very upset as you can imagine, he'd followed the process but didn't spot a fake gun license, that's not really on him. But the obvious fix for this is all gun sales must be conducted either at a police station or at some other official body who can verify there and then if they have a license and any red flags etc.

I'm not saying any one of the above or a combination would have changed the outcome, but some of the stuff could have been controlled better and maybe his mum and brother/sister would still be here, it's a miracle he didn't get to complete what the police thought he was planning.

Edited by Freakuk on Friday 10th October 11:21

[C5_Steve]

airsafari87 said:

C5_Steve said:

all the more unsettling when someone with no clear life event trigger/trauma

It seemed like there was something that happened in June which became a trigger, it just wasn t elaborated on or explained any further in the programme.

The police said his internet history had a marked change in June and had been relatively normal up until that time.

The killer himself alluded to an event in June that meant him no longer having the 15 friends he previously had.

No I caught that bit but you're making an assumption. He just said he had X friends up to June, less after. Doesn't mean there was an external factor that impacted him. Maybe his friends caught on to him being weird about a video game character. Or perhaps that's when he left college and they weren't his real friends, just people he saw at school) college.

(You could be right, I'm just saying it's an assumption and there didn't seem to be anything significant otherwise it'd be mentioned)

Edited by C5_Steve on Sunday 12th October 17:39

[Legacywr]

The Essex Murders: Who Killed Goldfinger.

An investigation into the murder of John Palmer.

A 3 parter on Sky Documentaries is a pretty good watch.

[Jim H]

C5_Steve said:

airsafari87 said:

C5_Steve said:

all the more unsettling when someone with no clear life event trigger/trauma

It seemed like there was something that happened in June which became a trigger, it just wasn t elaborated on or explained any further in the programme.

The police said his internet history had a marked change in June and had been relatively normal up until that time.

The killer himself alluded to an event in June that meant him no longer having the 15 friends he previously had.

No I caught that bit but you're making an assumption. He just said he had X friends up to June, less after. Doesn't mean there was an external factor that impacted him. Maybe his friends caught on to him being weird about a video game character. Or perhaps that's when he left college and they weren't his real friends, just people he saw at school) college.

(You could be right, I'm just saying it's an assumption and there didn't seem to be anything significant otherwise it'd be mentioned)

Edited by C5_Steve on Sunday 12th October 17:39

As a Shotgun license holder myself I took a bit of an interest in this case, I wish I hadn’t - grim. When it first happened I was thinking how could an 18 year old get hold of a Shotgun in Luton.

I find it hard to believe that he hadn’t ’stood out’ before, or perhaps his mental condition broke down rapidly. He was clearly one very disturbed individual.

On the issue of the actual licence, I’m sure I’d read he had created the fake one by researching what they look like on the web. Now let’s just say it’s not an overly complicated document, but still for an 18 year old to do so?. And it must have been a very good fake to trick the seller of the weapon. License holders do take a lot of responsibility towards this very seriously.

I’m sure the seller must be tortured absolutely by this tragedy. That poor family.

Having said that, the whole thing could have been at lot worse if he’d carried out his original intention.

It definitely will make changes to the license document, and how they held on a database - and the sale of weapons. It has to.

[fourstardan]

Legacywr said:

The Essex Murders: Who Killed Goldfinger.

An investigation into the murder of John Palmer.

A 3 parter on Sky Documentaries is a pretty good watch.

Is that the Bristolian guy from that series on the BBC ? lol