The man in the high castle.
Discussion
I finally watched the last couple of episodes of this today.
Well, that was a rather inconclusive ending. Overall, I enjoyed it. I thought it was a little slow paced, but overall very good. I'm glad to learn there is a 2nd series to come.
(Switching to spoiler tags now...)
So was it all a dream? In a Bobby Ewing off of Dallas sense? Something to do with drugs? Wouldn't be the first time PK Dick had done something like that.
The thing that really leaves me confused, though, is the motivation for Frank's colleague helping him the way he does. To the point of, ultimately, being prepared to take the rap for him. That goes beyond colleagues, even beyond friendship. Was he in love with Frank? Or maybe in love with Juliana? I don't understand his motivation.
Also, we don't know who the Man in the High Castle is or where the films come from. Although the final film clearly shows that the films are of many different realities not just "our" one. Plus, since there is a 2nd series mooted, I guess they needed to withhold that.
As others have said, maybe the 2nd series will take place in another reality. Maybe a Russian one? Who knows.
Well, that was a rather inconclusive ending. Overall, I enjoyed it. I thought it was a little slow paced, but overall very good. I'm glad to learn there is a 2nd series to come.
(Switching to spoiler tags now...)
So was it all a dream? In a Bobby Ewing off of Dallas sense? Something to do with drugs? Wouldn't be the first time PK Dick had done something like that.
The thing that really leaves me confused, though, is the motivation for Frank's colleague helping him the way he does. To the point of, ultimately, being prepared to take the rap for him. That goes beyond colleagues, even beyond friendship. Was he in love with Frank? Or maybe in love with Juliana? I don't understand his motivation.
Also, we don't know who the Man in the High Castle is or where the films come from. Although the final film clearly shows that the films are of many different realities not just "our" one. Plus, since there is a 2nd series mooted, I guess they needed to withhold that.
As others have said, maybe the 2nd series will take place in another reality. Maybe a Russian one? Who knows.
Also, and this is not confined to this programme, but why would they sometimes talk in their native language (with subtitles) and then revert to English? Amongst themselves I mean? Say this for 'Allo 'Allo but I liked that they used stereotypical accents to denote the language being spoken. For two Japanese people to greet each other in Japanese and then revert to English makes no sense. Likewise German.
Yes, it is an English-language show. But that isn't the point I am making.
Yes, it is an English-language show. But that isn't the point I am making.
ClockworkCupcake said:
Also, and this is not confined to this programme, but why would they sometimes talk in their native language (with subtitles) and then revert to English? Amongst themselves I mean? Say this for 'Allo 'Allo but I liked that they used stereotypical accents to denote the language being spoken. For two Japanese people to greet each other in Japanese and then revert to English makes no sense. Likewise German.
Yes, it is an English-language show. But that isn't the point I am making.
I thought it was a good compromise.Yes, it is an English-language show. But that isn't the point I am making.
thetapeworm said:
Very late to the party but just popped in to reveal some spoiler tags and try to make more sense of some things. Really liked it until the end of the final episode, I'm a simple chap, I wanted all the answers rather than more questions.
How else do you expect them to get Season 2 commissioned. 
SWoll said:
thetapeworm said:
Very late to the party but just popped in to reveal some spoiler tags and try to make more sense of some things. Really liked it until the end of the final episode, I'm a simple chap, I wanted all the answers rather than more questions.
How else do you expect them to get Season 2 commissioned. 
I didn't find myself bonding with any of the characters though so by the end I didn't really care who "won", I just would have liked it if they filled in a few more gaps. Hopefully that's where season 2 comes in.
I watched the first episode before the rest of the series was available and thought it was brilliant. I told my wife and she watched it just before the series was available, also thinking it was brilliant. By the end of the series, I was just watching it to find out the ending. I didn't really find any of the characters very likeable or interesting, Rufus Sewell was the best of them, by a long way. Because it was so slow, I struggled to concentrate on it and lost interest.
The concept of the Nazis winning WW2 and the production quality were really good, but the rest of it lost it's appeal. As for the ending, that was terrible. We basically burst out laughing that they used that for the ending. I thought that one was ridiculed out of existence in the 80s.
The concept of the Nazis winning WW2 and the production quality were really good, but the rest of it lost it's appeal. As for the ending, that was terrible. We basically burst out laughing that they used that for the ending. I thought that one was ridiculed out of existence in the 80s.
t mentalcase, and it's all very different. opieoilman said:
As for the ending, that was terrible. We basically burst out laughing that they used that for the ending. I thought that one was ridiculed out of existence in the 80s.
I'm struggling to see what aspect of the ending might have been ridiculous. A brief search did however reveal that some people rather misinterpreted what happened at the end and thought it was, well, the thing you probably thought. It wasn't that though. opieoilman said:
I watched the first episode before the rest of the series was available and thought it was brilliant. I told my wife and she watched it just before the series was available, also thinking it was brilliant. By the end of the series, I was just watching it to find out the ending. I didn't really find any of the characters very likeable or interesting, Rufus Sewell was the best of them, by a long way. Because it was so slow, I struggled to concentrate on it and lost interest.
The concept of the Nazis winning WW2 and the production quality were really good, but the rest of it lost it's appeal. As for the ending, that was terrible. We basically burst out laughing that they used that for the ending. I thought that one was ridiculed out of existence in the 80s.
I tend to agree with all that...The concept of the Nazis winning WW2 and the production quality were really good, but the rest of it lost it's appeal. As for the ending, that was terrible. We basically burst out laughing that they used that for the ending. I thought that one was ridiculed out of existence in the 80s.
I watched the first episode, liked the premise and the production qualities/visuals, but as the series went on none of the characters were very engaging or interesting and the plot didn't really develop in any interesting or conclusive way.
The 'ending' just felt like a cop out, really... Whether it was a Bobby-esque shower moment or some time-tunnel-esque time slip or something else obscure that we're supposed to have divined without (or even with, given it bears little resemblance to the book) any clear clues!
M
Edited by marcosgt on Wednesday 18th May 09:55
marcosgt said:
The 'ending' just felt like a cop out, really... Whether it was a Bobby-esque shower moment or some time-tunnel-esque time slip or something else obscure that we're supposed to have divined without (or even with, given it bears little resemblance to the book) any clear clues!
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I thought that it was fairly clear that he had somehow shifted to one of the Alternate Realities depicted by the film reels. Agreed, it wasn't really explained how / why that happened but since they have commissioned a 2nd Season then perhaps it will be explained in that. The films themselves were fairly clear clues that Alternate Realities existed.
marcosgt said:
The 'ending' just felt like a cop out, really... Whether it was a Bobby-esque shower moment or some time-tunnel-esque time slip or something else obscure that we're supposed to have divined without (or even with, given it bears little resemblance to the book) any clear clues!
M
People being able to move between realities. Clues like Kotomichi's burns on his arms from Nagasaki (where no bomb was dropped in the main reality of the show). Newsreels from other realities, ours and a different one completely. The necklace. Perhaps the different perception is that I approached it as more 'Fringe-like' from the beginning based on who the original author was. Or perhaps I'm using PH from a reality where most cars are German...M
Fair enough, I agree that there was a suggestion of shift between realities, but a whole series where how that was happening was never really even approached still seemed like a cop out to me...
It seemed an intriguing ending at the time, but combined with the sedentary pace left me wanting in hindsight...
Maybe the second series would approach that, but it had a horribly open-ended "Lost" kind of feel (where you can just keep piling up red-herrings and never move towards any kind of resolution) to me...
The fact that Rufus Sewell's character who rarely seemed to do anything is frequently quoted as the most powerful is both a credit to him and damning of everyone else...
M
It seemed an intriguing ending at the time, but combined with the sedentary pace left me wanting in hindsight...
Maybe the second series would approach that, but it had a horribly open-ended "Lost" kind of feel (where you can just keep piling up red-herrings and never move towards any kind of resolution) to me...
The fact that Rufus Sewell's character who rarely seemed to do anything is frequently quoted as the most powerful is both a credit to him and damning of everyone else...
M
Edited by marcosgt on Wednesday 18th May 10:56
The book dwells far more on Tagomi and I found it a complicated read, but this is often the case with PKD's longer stories. The fact the TV series is quite different but also fairly complex keeps it interesting and I'm looking forward to the sequel. The fact Tagomi saw the alternate reality suggests to me he will play a crucial part in the next series. Perhaps he and the Man in the High Castle are linked?
karma mechanic said:
marcosgt said:
The 'ending' just felt like a cop out, really... Whether it was a Bobby-esque shower moment or some time-tunnel-esque time slip or something else obscure that we're supposed to have divined without (or even with, given it bears little resemblance to the book) any clear clues!
M
People being able to move between realities. Clues like Kotomichi's burns on his arms from Nagasaki (where no bomb was dropped in the main reality of the show). Newsreels from other realities, ours and a different one completely. The necklace. Perhaps the different perception is that I approached it as more 'Fringe-like' from the beginning based on who the original author was. Or perhaps I'm using PH from a reality where most cars are German...M
Anyway, it is based on a Philip K Dick book. What did people expect, something straightforward?
ClockworkCupcake said:
karma mechanic said:
marcosgt said:
The 'ending' just felt like a cop out, really... Whether it was a Bobby-esque shower moment or some time-tunnel-esque time slip or something else obscure that we're supposed to have divined without (or even with, given it bears little resemblance to the book) any clear clues!
M
People being able to move between realities. Clues like Kotomichi's burns on his arms from Nagasaki (where no bomb was dropped in the main reality of the show). Newsreels from other realities, ours and a different one completely. The necklace. Perhaps the different perception is that I approached it as more 'Fringe-like' from the beginning based on who the original author was. Or perhaps I'm using PH from a reality where most cars are German...M
Anyway, it is based on a Philip K Dick book. What did people expect, something straightforward?
Perhaps that was a mistake in hindsight, but I still found most of the characters pretty hard to get emotionally attached to and the pace a bit glacial...
Perhaps I should have expected a 'sci-fi' ending, given the author, but I assumed it was an alternate history drama up until that point (albeit with an odd twist).
Spinning a character out into a different alternate reality makes me fear they'll just keep doing that until they decide not to commission any more, which is very mainstream American TV behaviour for all Amazon's pretence of being 'disruptive'...
M
Edited by marcosgt on Wednesday 18th May 14:14
IIRC, and it's been a while, the shift in realities was caused when someone takes a decision NOT to shoot someone else when they had the chance.
Based on this 1 decision, the whole of history/future shifted into an alternate realism, which the Japanese fella at the end reveals by going to sleep in one, and then awaking in the other.
I didn't think it was that complicated to understand, but then I had downloaded and watched all 10 episodes one after another over a few days so it was all fresh in my mind at the time!
However, it's not very clear that the changing of realities and alternate universes is actually the whole point of the programme/book when you watch the first 9 hours and 50 minutes of the show. It's literally only rhe last 10 minutes of episode 10 that specifically alludes to this in series 1.
I assume series 2 will be more obvious about the core element of the story which is that it's all about alternate realities and all that jazz!
Based on this 1 decision, the whole of history/future shifted into an alternate realism, which the Japanese fella at the end reveals by going to sleep in one, and then awaking in the other.
I didn't think it was that complicated to understand, but then I had downloaded and watched all 10 episodes one after another over a few days so it was all fresh in my mind at the time!
However, it's not very clear that the changing of realities and alternate universes is actually the whole point of the programme/book when you watch the first 9 hours and 50 minutes of the show. It's literally only rhe last 10 minutes of episode 10 that specifically alludes to this in series 1.
I assume series 2 will be more obvious about the core element of the story which is that it's all about alternate realities and all that jazz!
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