Game of Thrones - vol II - NO SPOILERS
Discussion
I Love Cake said:
Have HBO ever dropped the ball this badly with a show before?
Never, not in the shows I’ve seen, Boardwalk empire was my least favourite ending however the show was in decline and they had a reason to wrap it up quickly, GoT is/was a money maker and they had no reason to make the last season 6 episodes and rush it!I just can’t believe Jon Snow came back from the dead and him being a Targaryen had no real impact on the finale, what was the point in adding that to the script, well, the book writer guy obviously had different plans but the show runners decided to make their own plans and ruin it.
Jon Snow should have died with Dany or died in battle somehow, I hate how the shows biggest character with the biggest potential ended up being shipped off to the nights watch to waste away, it just isn’t right.
Jon Snow as a character is just a weak guy isn’t he, no real balls other than fighting, always seeking approval and letting his little sister influence him and tell him what to do, he believed in Dany yet got talked out of it, ultimately stabbing her in the heart, crying about it after and questioning his decision, he was a weak guy, I’d like to say he deserved better but that’s because of us growing to like him and following his life throughout the show, I guess, if it was all real, his punishment is definitely good enough and he will regret it for the rest of his life.
I’m not saying Dany was right to kill all those people but to be a ruler back then, I guess you had to be ruthless and create fear, when you put too much trust in people and become too comfortable, you get stabbed in the heart. He had no right to do so after the sacrifice’s she made for him.
He’s a f
king and I want to sue HBO for making me hate him, how on earth is bran the new king?!
Jon Snow should have died with Dany or died in battle somehow, I hate how the shows biggest character with the biggest potential ended up being shipped off to the nights watch to waste away, it just isn’t right.
Jon Snow as a character is just a weak guy isn’t he, no real balls other than fighting, always seeking approval and letting his little sister influence him and tell him what to do, he believed in Dany yet got talked out of it, ultimately stabbing her in the heart, crying about it after and questioning his decision, he was a weak guy, I’d like to say he deserved better but that’s because of us growing to like him and following his life throughout the show, I guess, if it was all real, his punishment is definitely good enough and he will regret it for the rest of his life.
I’m not saying Dany was right to kill all those people but to be a ruler back then, I guess you had to be ruthless and create fear, when you put too much trust in people and become too comfortable, you get stabbed in the heart. He had no right to do so after the sacrifice’s she made for him.
He’s a f
king and I want to sue HBO for making me hate him, how on earth is bran the new king?! Chestrockwell said:
He’s a fking and I want to sue HBO for making me hate him, how on earth is bran the new king?!
Well it appears because Bran planned it all.king and I want to sue HBO for making me hate him, how on earth is bran the new king?! You may well think this make Bran actually the main villain of the piece.
From what I can see you may well be right...
f
king hopeless writing.As many called it Dany was rational when she torched KL rather than suffering from PMT or whatever. Suspect it was so extreme to then justify Jon killing her this episode. As someone pointed out she went from our saviour in white to holding Nuremberg style rallies in the space of two episodes. Despite the Nazi imagery though she was actually far more a metaphor for communism, a utopia to be imposed on the world for its own good, leaving uncounted dead and social disruption it is wake.
In terms of the various characters fates I think you have to leave aside what you would want, and the rewards you think the characters deserve, to look at what the characters want.
Arya never wanted to be a lady, she was a tomboy who wanted to explore (passages in the book that I am not sure made it on to the show). She ends by setting off to explore the west and a nice nod to Frodo in LOTR in that she has experienced too much horror and is now sailing to the west.
Jon never wanted to be king, he told us often enough. The wildlings probably have far more girls than men so he should be able to find himself a new Ygritte and he is with his best friend. Yes it is cold most of the time, but so is northern Europe near the artic circle.
For the rest they mostly have the endings anticipated, Tyrion as hand, Sansa queen in the north, Sam a Maester (who no doubt isn't keeping the vow of chastity). Bran on the throne rather surprising, but better suited to the role than Jon and his abilities mean he should be able to keep everyone in line.
Now I have seen the full show I have a bit more sympathy for the writers than I did mid way through S7. Cersei is obviously now filling the role of others in the books, while Dany is no doubt going to take a darker turn in the books, and they had little other than a few notes from GRRM about this. That said from the whole convince Cersei plot onwards the writing was mostly diabolical and has meant that one of the best TV shows ever had one of the worse endings. Way back before S5 they should have hired a proper writer (not a TV adapter) to flesh out a proper plan to develop the core themes, in particular Dany's descent (which should have been one of the most tragic arcs in fiction).
In terms of the various characters fates I think you have to leave aside what you would want, and the rewards you think the characters deserve, to look at what the characters want.
Arya never wanted to be a lady, she was a tomboy who wanted to explore (passages in the book that I am not sure made it on to the show). She ends by setting off to explore the west and a nice nod to Frodo in LOTR in that she has experienced too much horror and is now sailing to the west.
Jon never wanted to be king, he told us often enough. The wildlings probably have far more girls than men so he should be able to find himself a new Ygritte and he is with his best friend. Yes it is cold most of the time, but so is northern Europe near the artic circle.
For the rest they mostly have the endings anticipated, Tyrion as hand, Sansa queen in the north, Sam a Maester (who no doubt isn't keeping the vow of chastity). Bran on the throne rather surprising, but better suited to the role than Jon and his abilities mean he should be able to keep everyone in line.
Now I have seen the full show I have a bit more sympathy for the writers than I did mid way through S7. Cersei is obviously now filling the role of others in the books, while Dany is no doubt going to take a darker turn in the books, and they had little other than a few notes from GRRM about this. That said from the whole convince Cersei plot onwards the writing was mostly diabolical and has meant that one of the best TV shows ever had one of the worse endings. Way back before S5 they should have hired a proper writer (not a TV adapter) to flesh out a proper plan to develop the core themes, in particular Dany's descent (which should have been one of the most tragic arcs in fiction).
Edited by JagLover on Tuesday 21st May 05:46
Thesprucegoose said:
it makes little sense when you realise Bran engineered it all so as to get the throne, he allowed all innocents to die, when he could have intervened.
For some characters there is perhaps a story behind the story we see on screen. Many think for example that show Bran has merged somehow with Blood raven, or that Blood raven took him over entirely. A number also think he manipulated events to be made king and him saying he will track Drogon is a wink to that.
If that is the case then it makes sense why they spent so little time with him on the show once he went north of the wall, rather than it being just poor writing that we spent so little time with the person who became king.
blueg33 said:
I enjoyed it. Constant critical dismantling of each episode spoils it.
Regardless of armchair tv making experts disappointments it remains some of the best tv I have seen in my 53 years of life.
Overall, it's perhaps the second best TV show I've ever watched (breaking bad takes the top spot). I started watching S1 GoT just after finishing BB and for years it was better. Regardless of armchair tv making experts disappointments it remains some of the best tv I have seen in my 53 years of life.
It's hardly just "armchair experts". Plenty of professional reviewers are also saying the last two seasons are crap in comparison to what came before. Even guests on Thronecast are pointing out plot holes!
It turned from the best story I've ever watched, to the I most stunning visual feast. To be glib, it became pure Hollywood.
I've enjoyed the last two seasons. I loved the ones prior.
I’m in the “fewer” camp who actually enjoyed the ending. Yes it was sped up, tons of loose ends and pointless plots and it went a little fellowship of Hollywood. But we got GRR’s ending. Ayra killed NK. And my favourite part of the books (bar red wedding) with Jamie reading barristans log in the kingsguard books so Brienne doing it and adding Jamie’s was perfect
Surely now the unsullied have left the continent never to return Jon could leave Knights Watch via his brother Bran annulling the punishment.
Did anyone notice the massive weight gain Kit Harrison had during the seasons one a chiseled man ending up and a cry chubby faced Kit - we must be talking 3-4 stone+++
Did anyone notice the massive weight gain Kit Harrison had during the seasons one a chiseled man ending up and a cry chubby faced Kit - we must be talking 3-4 stone+++
Butter Face said:
There effectively is no Night Watch, there is no Night King, no worry from the wildlings etc. Jon has gone to be with the wildlings and would likely become their king (The King in the North!)
Yep and where else would he go?, Sansa has become queen of the north after all. Jon has always liked being with the free folk so not sure why many think this is a bad ending for the character. hyphen said:
Clockwork Cupcake said:
I thought Sam's suggestion of a democracy was a nice touch.
The North chose to Brexit, and not stay in this unelected and unaccountable superstate 
Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 21st May 07:06
JagLover said:
Yep and where else would he go?, Sansa has become queen of the north after all. Jon has always liked being with the free folk so not sure why many think this is a bad ending for the character.
I’m not sure he “liked” it was forced upon him - whereas he would have been very happy in Winterfell
Welshbeef said:
JagLover said:
Yep and where else would he go?, Sansa has become queen of the north after all. Jon has always liked being with the free folk so not sure why many think this is a bad ending for the character.
I’m not sure he “liked” it was forced upon him - whereas he would have been very happy in WinterfellWe don't know whether the Night Watch exists anymore, we don't know if Greyworm knows enough to realise there is/isn't a Nights Watch or what it is. And Greyworm leaves with no way of knowing whether Jon goes to the wall, or stays at the wall. All of the rules around the nights watch, such as those that led to Ned killing that chap at the start, don't automatically survive the new scenario, so who knows what the limits on Jon are now?
The fundamental issue here is that given Greyworm wants to go hang in Naath, why does he accept this outcome when it is meaningless to him and he could have imposed any outcome he wanted at any point?
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