Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)
Discussion
HorneyMX5 said:
I went to the midnight showing and therefore had only early trad media reviews and the trailers as my influence.
I walked out and felt as let down as I did when I walked out of Phantom Menace. But this was worse. TPM at least had the opportunity to be the first Star Wars film in years and that gave it some leeway with me. TLJ followed on from probably one of the best films in the series, Rogue One, and it fell horribly flat.
I ought to give it a second watch to be sure but I feel no urge to. I’ve watched TFA and RO numerous times now.
I watched TFA at the first midnight showing, then Rogue ONe a short while after it came out, same with TLJ. The need to watch the later ones first wasn't there, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Watching certain youtube shows helps to dissect what works, what doesn't, and how the films pan out, and in doing so, I can understand why subconsciously, the desire to watch SW stuff is now fading, because the storytelling is poor to mediocre. IMpressive visuals can't hide the hollow core. I now won't bother to watch SOlo at all...unless some posters here say it's decent, then I'll probably go when it quietens downI walked out and felt as let down as I did when I walked out of Phantom Menace. But this was worse. TPM at least had the opportunity to be the first Star Wars film in years and that gave it some leeway with me. TLJ followed on from probably one of the best films in the series, Rogue One, and it fell horribly flat.
I ought to give it a second watch to be sure but I feel no urge to. I’ve watched TFA and RO numerous times now.
Halb said:
From the sounds of it the actors had less leeway; Mark, Harrison and Carrie would have been the oldhands here, but they were simply told how it was gonna go, back in '74
Apparently and this may be apocryphal Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford (who'd previously worked with Lucas) did a lot of work on the script of Star Wars, in order to make it flow better. I think Ford said works to the effect of "You can type this sEdited by Halb on Saturday 21st April 14:58
t but you can't say it". Peter Cushing was a genre actor who generally did Hammer horror films and Alec Guinness appeared to have signed up to pay for his extension so I don't think they were terribly invested in the project. I believe Empire Strikes Back was largely method acted, which was in vogue at the time, but did end up requiring endless reshoots and delays.
While I know it's got many flaws, The Force Awakens "felt" like a Star Wars film again after the mess that was the prequels and, despite having far too many nods-back to the OT I really enjoyed it so I was really looking forward to seeing all the story threads left by TFA continued and explored during TLJ.
By the time the first sequence finished I was already starting to get very worried about the direction the film was deciding to go in as it didn't "feel" Star Warsy and when we got to the Casino Planet I'd already written the film off, it was that bad.
Luke Skywalker, the heart & soul of the trilogy, is now forever known not only as a Hero of the Rebellion but also as an attempted child murderer.
Han Solo, a man who died as a Hero of the Rebellion, isn't even given a single scene with anyone showing grief for his passing, not one scene.
General Leia, who has no Jedi training yet can now "Mary Poppins" her way around in Deep Space, isn't shown grieving for her recently killed Husband.
Rey, who has a few days training, is now a more powerful Jedi than Luke was when he had an equivalent amount of training (Rey lifting rocks at the end vs Luke on Dagoba).
Chewbacca, who has known Han the longest out of all the characters, has no scene with him showing grief at losing a friend but gets a Porg eating scene.
Kylo Ren killed both his Dad and his evil Father figure in front of Rey - Still wants Rey to help him and doesn't understand why she says No!
General Hux went from being the highest ranking "Empire" general to a slapstick comedy device with zero respect now.
I could easily go on and on but the vast majority of my issues have already been discussed to death in this thread but suffice to say - It didn't "feel" like a Star Wars film, it just "felt" like a poorly written run of the mill Sci-Fi film which just happened to use character names we already knew.
By the time the first sequence finished I was already starting to get very worried about the direction the film was deciding to go in as it didn't "feel" Star Warsy and when we got to the Casino Planet I'd already written the film off, it was that bad.
Luke Skywalker, the heart & soul of the trilogy, is now forever known not only as a Hero of the Rebellion but also as an attempted child murderer.
Han Solo, a man who died as a Hero of the Rebellion, isn't even given a single scene with anyone showing grief for his passing, not one scene.
General Leia, who has no Jedi training yet can now "Mary Poppins" her way around in Deep Space, isn't shown grieving for her recently killed Husband.
Rey, who has a few days training, is now a more powerful Jedi than Luke was when he had an equivalent amount of training (Rey lifting rocks at the end vs Luke on Dagoba).
Chewbacca, who has known Han the longest out of all the characters, has no scene with him showing grief at losing a friend but gets a Porg eating scene.
Kylo Ren killed both his Dad and his evil Father figure in front of Rey - Still wants Rey to help him and doesn't understand why she says No!
General Hux went from being the highest ranking "Empire" general to a slapstick comedy device with zero respect now.
I could easily go on and on but the vast majority of my issues have already been discussed to death in this thread but suffice to say - It didn't "feel" like a Star Wars film, it just "felt" like a poorly written run of the mill Sci-Fi film which just happened to use character names we already knew.
warch said:
Apparently and this may be apocryphal Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford (who'd previously worked with Lucas) did a lot of work on the script of Star Wars, in order to make it flow better. I think Ford said works to the effect of "You can type this st but you can't say it". Peter Cushing was a genre actor who generally did Hammer horror films and Alec Guinness appeared to have signed up to pay for his extension so I don't think they were terribly invested in the project.
I believe Empire Strikes Back was largely method acted, which was in vogue at the time, but did end up requiring endless reshoots and delays.
I like Harrison Ford, I think he's a very fine actor. By Star Wars, he had given up on acting full time, and was approaching 40 (damn fine genetics), so he was an old hand by that point, and he was allowed leeway, he got on with Lucas. Guinness was a canny old fella, he optioned himself at the start, because he knew if it was done right, it'd be lucrative, there was a bit of an image that he didn't like it (because it became too big) but it gave him his pension and Alec was proud of what he'd done, there was collaboration there are the start and the process was quite fluid, though there seems to be confusion over who's idea it was to kill Kenobi off. IN the Shooting Pictures docs Guinness speaks of SW fondly. Cushing may have been famous for Hammer (the UK film industry in the 60's was dying horribly and the films that were offering jobs were hammer and carry on), but he was a telly stalwart with decades of experience. Kerchner directed Empire, his was pretty influential, good director. Knew how to get the best from his people, and I don't think he had any lemons that I can recall. He helped lift it.t but you can't say it". Peter Cushing was a genre actor who generally did Hammer horror films and Alec Guinness appeared to have signed up to pay for his extension so I don't think they were terribly invested in the project. I believe Empire Strikes Back was largely method acted, which was in vogue at the time, but did end up requiring endless reshoots and delays.
Nik da Greek said:
I'm neither. It was just a really poorly written story. Confused, badly paced, muddled and self-contradictory. Its irrelevant whether it was Star Wars or whether you're a fan, it was just bad scripting.
EDIT for sense
EDIT for sense
Edited by Nik da Greek on Friday 20th April 20:24
interesting video which shows the real score for last jedi on RT, if one removes the no 1 star inclusion fiddle.
The Last Jedi ACTUAL Rotten Tomatoes popcorn score is 24 percent - Mark Sargent ✅
https://youtu.be/CWPAbKEmd5MHalb said:
interesting video which shows the real score for last jedi on RT, if one removes the no 1 star inclusion fiddle.
10/10 for that quality rant at the end too The Last Jedi ACTUAL Rotten Tomatoes popcorn score is 24 percent - Mark Sargent ?
https://youtu.be/CWPAbKEmd5M
Halb said:
interesting video which shows the real score for last jedi on RT, if one removes the no 1 star inclusion fiddle.
That's an excellent find. Also like the rant by the girl at the end of the film.The Last Jedi ACTUAL Rotten Tomatoes popcorn score is 24 percent - Mark Sargent ?
https://youtu.be/CWPAbKEmd5Msaw this over the weekend with a few glasses of wine.
i was keeping an open mind as there were a lot of great reviews on release and then more measured reviews from people I know and then some real stinkers from fans.
its just ok. its a let down in terms of what could have been. I really liked TFA and R1 was a decent effort but this was muddled and I think they tried to do just to much in one film.
The whole code breaker thing could have been canned, the opening sequence gave us nothing we didn't already know - Po - a bit of a rebel - no kidding, really??
the luke Rey dialogue interchanges were really weak..."I'm going to do this" "no don't do it" "I'm going to do this" "please don't"...jeez did you have help with the script?
Leah and the resurrection...erm...what. (drinks large gulp of wine to make sure I'm still watching the right film....)
Kylo - woefully underused and Mr. potato head (sorry snork) not really that scary.
the film looks great as you would expect, overlong by 20 minutes at least but as others have said there could have been time for character references, reminiscing etc. 100% agree, why does Rey translate Chewie for Luke?? no need whatsoever.
BUT. BUT. the biggest failure here is the timeline of events....was I supposed to believe that in the same time frame that the fleet were trying to out-run the first order (at one point we were reminded they had 12 hours ?) that Rey has to convince Luke to help, and pass several days and then get across the galaxy (remember from TFA that Luke wasn't exactly in the neighbourhood and very hard to find) fight alongside Kylo to defeat Mr. P head and THEN rejoin the fleet.
more wine. I was bored if i'm honest - I get the whole force projection stuff and the deception and I liked that bit actually but this was a massive let down TFA was excellent and this was no match for it.
I should watch it again potentially sober but i'm not sure I want to lose that amount of time out my life again...
PS someone pls explain the Leah thing to me.....have I missed something really obvious...??
i was keeping an open mind as there were a lot of great reviews on release and then more measured reviews from people I know and then some real stinkers from fans.
its just ok. its a let down in terms of what could have been. I really liked TFA and R1 was a decent effort but this was muddled and I think they tried to do just to much in one film.
The whole code breaker thing could have been canned, the opening sequence gave us nothing we didn't already know - Po - a bit of a rebel - no kidding, really??
the luke Rey dialogue interchanges were really weak..."I'm going to do this" "no don't do it" "I'm going to do this" "please don't"...jeez did you have help with the script?
Leah and the resurrection...erm...what. (drinks large gulp of wine to make sure I'm still watching the right film....)
Kylo - woefully underused and Mr. potato head (sorry snork) not really that scary.
the film looks great as you would expect, overlong by 20 minutes at least but as others have said there could have been time for character references, reminiscing etc. 100% agree, why does Rey translate Chewie for Luke?? no need whatsoever.
BUT. BUT. the biggest failure here is the timeline of events....was I supposed to believe that in the same time frame that the fleet were trying to out-run the first order (at one point we were reminded they had 12 hours ?) that Rey has to convince Luke to help, and pass several days and then get across the galaxy (remember from TFA that Luke wasn't exactly in the neighbourhood and very hard to find) fight alongside Kylo to defeat Mr. P head and THEN rejoin the fleet.
more wine. I was bored if i'm honest - I get the whole force projection stuff and the deception and I liked that bit actually but this was a massive let down TFA was excellent and this was no match for it.
I should watch it again potentially sober but i'm not sure I want to lose that amount of time out my life again...
PS someone pls explain the Leah thing to me.....have I missed something really obvious...??
Watching this again tonight. Something I’ve realised is that one of my main dislikes is Admiral Holdo, she’s completely unnecessary and I feel it’d have been far better if they let Admiral Ackbar be in that role,and acting like a leader, rather than the pointless bhy character we got.
Not sure Disney would have got away with Ackbar going on a suicide run, but it would have been a fitting end for him or Leia, rather than Holdo who nobody gave a st about.
hy character we got.Not sure Disney would have got away with Ackbar going on a suicide run, but it would have been a fitting end for him or Leia, rather than Holdo who nobody gave a s
t about.Wobbegong said:
Watching this again tonight. Something I’ve realised is that one of my main dislikes is Admiral Holdo, she’s completely unnecessary and I feel it’d have been far better if they let Admiral Ackbar be in that role,and acting like a leader, rather than the pointless bhy character we got.
Not sure Disney would have got away with Ackbar going on a suicide run, but it would have been a fitting end for him or Leia, rather than Holdo who nobody gave a st about.
Admiral Ackbar is male and wouldn't have fit into Disney's new SJW agenda, even though it would have made a more satisfying story for the fans so instead they relegated him to a throw away line, introduced a woman no one had ever heard of with ambiguous sexuality, just to really drive that political point scoring home and had her berate the male character leads then sacrifice herself to save the day. They then realised she was a bit shy character we got.Not sure Disney would have got away with Ackbar going on a suicide run, but it would have been a fitting end for him or Leia, rather than Holdo who nobody gave a s
t about.t and her leadership skills and character motivation actually made zero sense so they gave her purple hair to try to compensate.Really the more I think about it, the more it seems like this film was just one massive intentional f
k you to existing fans, crazy.Colin Trevorrow opens up about being fired from EPISODE 9
https://youtu.be/OmH_8x8ILLU7mins
nice lil snippet
from listening to a few yt vids, KK and her lot don't have a plan, unlike George back in the day
Wobbegong said:
Not sure Disney would have got away with Ackbar going on a suicide run, but it would have been a fitting end for him or Leia, rather than Holdo who nobody gave a st about.
I reckon it would have been better received than him simply being killed off with barely a mention.t about.Holdo was totally unnecessary. Every single aspect of her role could have been fulfilled quite easily by a combination of Leia and Akbar. The only change required to make this happen would have been to lose the bridge destruction scene (this would also have resulted in Leia not doing her Mary Poppins thing either).
I reckon somebody will come up with a fan edit along those lines.
Moonhawk said:
Wobbegong said:
Holdo was totally unnecessary. Every single aspect of her role could have been fulfilled quite easily by a combination of Leia and Akbar. The only change required to make this happen would have been to lose the bridge destruction scene (this would also have resulted in Leia not doing her Mary Poppins thing either).
Absolutely, but then there wouldn't have been a 'major' role for Kathleen Kennedy's buddy Laura Dern.r11co said:
Absolutely, but then there wouldn't have been a 'major' role for Kathleen Kennedy's buddy Laura Dern.
When she turns up after an exhilarating but daft and futile bombing intro, it felt like an unfunny version of Monty Python's Colonel turning up in the film and says "Stop, stop! This is all getting too silly". Instead Laura Dern is revealed on the bridge, all sour faced and with a "because I want to so f××k you how dare you judge YOU FILTHY MAN PIG!" purple hair do saying "Stop all this laser fighter pilot pow pow crotch driven nonsense that nobody wants to see any more", then crashes the ship into the nearest imperial cruiser at light speed and breaks the entire film series.
though it is only one part of a really baffling collection of scenes and storylines that make up this film.
Though there may be a thread elsewhere, and I haven't seen it yet, but does anyone else consider the commercial flop that is the Solo spinoff story a direct result of the damage that TLJ did ?
I've now lost interest in the series as a whole (despite R1 being great) and I won't pay cinema money to go see one from now on. TLJ managed to alienate the bulk to the paying customers.
I've now lost interest in the series as a whole (despite R1 being great) and I won't pay cinema money to go see one from now on. TLJ managed to alienate the bulk to the paying customers.
gavsdavs said:
Though there may be a thread elsewhere, and I haven't seen it yet, but does anyone else consider the commercial flop that is the Solo spinoff story a direct result of the damage that TLJ did ?
I've now lost interest in the series as a whole (despite R1 being great) and I won't pay cinema money to go see one from now on. TLJ managed to alienate the bulk to the paying customers.
Covered in detail on the Solo thread and that thread is spoiler free for Solo itself. I've now lost interest in the series as a whole (despite R1 being great) and I won't pay cinema money to go see one from now on. TLJ managed to alienate the bulk to the paying customers.
gavsdavs said:
Though there may be a thread elsewhere, and I haven't seen it yet, but does anyone else consider the commercial flop that is the Solo spinoff story a direct result of the damage that TLJ did ?
I've now lost interest in the series as a whole (despite R1 being great) and I won't pay cinema money to go see one from now on. TLJ managed to alienate the bulk to the paying customers.
Yep the Phantom Menace pretty much killed my enthusiasm for the prequels and TLJ has done the same for the new Star Wars films for me. Refused to go and watch Solo in the cinema until I'd seen some proper public reviews and it has had a middling reception so I'm in no great hurry to see it. Episode 9 will also be the same, I refuse to give Disney any more of my money until they prove to me they can delivery a decent Star Wars film and not just a disjointed political propaganda piece, loosely based in the the Star Wars universe.I've now lost interest in the series as a whole (despite R1 being great) and I won't pay cinema money to go see one from now on. TLJ managed to alienate the bulk to the paying customers.
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