E63 Engine Tapping - 19k miles on the clock..
Discussion
So, I have a very low mileage 2004 645ci. Lovely car and immaculate inside and out. Full BMWSH, frequent oil changes, 1 owner from new. Got it with 17,750 on the clock.
After 500 miles I started hearing a tapping noise that's there cold or warm engine. Still persists at 1500 rpm until the revs drown it out. So now my car is beginning to sound like a diesel as the noise is getting louder. The car performs perfectly and there seems to be no negative effect on the ability of the car.
After some searches on forums a few weeks ago, all sorts of suggestions came up, but all for much higher mileage cars.
The dealer (not BMW dealership) said it might be a sticky injector/lifter thing (as you can tell I'm highly versed in car mechanics..) and he suggested an oil change and flush might sort it out, but he wasn't concerned it was going to damage or affect the cars performance.
One of the reasons I bought this car was because of the sound of the V8 engine...
Has anyone got any experience of this, with the same engine, at low miles? Or any advice on what it could be? If I did get an oil change/flush and the problem persists, what can I do? I've had the car for a month and have a 6 month warranty which I upgraded to 12 months the day I bought it so I suspect the dealer will tell me I need to use the warranty.
Thanks in advance...
Claire
After 500 miles I started hearing a tapping noise that's there cold or warm engine. Still persists at 1500 rpm until the revs drown it out. So now my car is beginning to sound like a diesel as the noise is getting louder. The car performs perfectly and there seems to be no negative effect on the ability of the car.
After some searches on forums a few weeks ago, all sorts of suggestions came up, but all for much higher mileage cars.
The dealer (not BMW dealership) said it might be a sticky injector/lifter thing (as you can tell I'm highly versed in car mechanics..) and he suggested an oil change and flush might sort it out, but he wasn't concerned it was going to damage or affect the cars performance.
One of the reasons I bought this car was because of the sound of the V8 engine...
Has anyone got any experience of this, with the same engine, at low miles? Or any advice on what it could be? If I did get an oil change/flush and the problem persists, what can I do? I've had the car for a month and have a 6 month warranty which I upgraded to 12 months the day I bought it so I suspect the dealer will tell me I need to use the warranty.
Thanks in advance...
Claire
Thanks for the link to the thread. The thread seems to relate to erratic revs and timing. My issue is the tapping noise alone - the revs are fine when starting up and when warm. The engine runs smoothly except this annoying tapping noise coming from the right side of the engine.
Anyway, looks like I'm going have to spend more money (on top of the cost of the car one month ago) to get it looked at..
Anyway, looks like I'm going have to spend more money (on top of the cost of the car one month ago) to get it looked at..
Helix,
Thanks very much for that link - very, very useful and an interesting read. I'm intrigued as to whether it is a lifter or problem with the cylinder head as driving at higher revs seemed to fix the problem in some cases and my car gets a good dose of higher revs when it is warm. Interesting comment too, that some mechanics refuse to do a flush as it can damage the engine..!
Thanks very much for that link - very, very useful and an interesting read. I'm intrigued as to whether it is a lifter or problem with the cylinder head as driving at higher revs seemed to fix the problem in some cases and my car gets a good dose of higher revs when it is warm. Interesting comment too, that some mechanics refuse to do a flush as it can damage the engine..!
I took the car to an indy BMW garage this morning and he thinks it might be something other than the lifters as the noise is a more hollow sound that is continuous, he said with the lifters they do quieten down during their cycle as they fill and empty and move, but with the noise my car makes, it might be cylinder-related or could be timing chain or even something to do with the small end. Would need to go on the ramp and get the stethoscope out.
Spoke to the dealer I got the car from and he's going to send someone down to pick it up and take it to his BMW man, a man he says is someone that is used to solving difficult issues that others can't, so that's reassuring.
Will post again once the diagnosis has been done so anyone else getting a tapping noise like mine, may have some potential lines of enquiry.
Spoke to the dealer I got the car from and he's going to send someone down to pick it up and take it to his BMW man, a man he says is someone that is used to solving difficult issues that others can't, so that's reassuring.
Will post again once the diagnosis has been done so anyone else getting a tapping noise like mine, may have some potential lines of enquiry.
bmwmike said:
At that mileage I would have put a Mondial warranty on it...
It came with a 6-month AA warranty which I upgraded. No excess and £2000 limit per item. As that was the warranty that came with car, I stuck with that. I did get a quote for a Mondial warranty and it was £1300.Car is currently back with the dealer to sort the problem.
Spoke to the dealer this afternoon. Car has been to two different garages and neither are sure what the noise is. If they took the a proper look at the engine, there may be no obvious cause and even if there was, the warranty co may not agree it's wear and tear.
So, having not had the car now for over a week and with no end in sight, the dealer is buying the car back off me.
Very disappointed not be having the car back but the fact it's gone wrong at 18,500 miles makes me think I may be in for more trouble later on.
So, now in the market for another 645ci or 650i. Deep joy. Ideally one that is trouble-free...
Will be taking the dealers car he left at mine, when he had the 645 collected, back up to Shrewsbury so I will ask him what exactly the garages have said.
So, having not had the car now for over a week and with no end in sight, the dealer is buying the car back off me.
Very disappointed not be having the car back but the fact it's gone wrong at 18,500 miles makes me think I may be in for more trouble later on.
So, now in the market for another 645ci or 650i. Deep joy. Ideally one that is trouble-free...
Will be taking the dealers car he left at mine, when he had the 645 collected, back up to Shrewsbury so I will ask him what exactly the garages have said.
T16OLE said:
I'd be looking for something a little newer with mileage as a trade off
Also, the 650i has a bit more poke and less issues.
I enjoyed my 645ci though I must say
My max budget is £12k but the cars I've seen are around the mileage issues arise like rocker cover and vanos...but can't have my cake and eat it...what do I expect for £12k... Also, the 650i has a bit more poke and less issues.
I enjoyed my 645ci though I must say
I was originally looking for a 650 when I found the 645i, so this time around I will focus on a 650i.
What are the 'known issues' of a 650 you've heard of?
So, a trip to the dealers today (in a 1.4 VW which felt like I was stationary when accelerating)...and back in the same 1.4 VW.
Had a long, long discussion with dealer and having slept on it last night, I decided to leave the car with the specialist BMW indy the dealer has it at currently, to take the plunge and have a proper look at the engine.
They did get the stethescope on it last week, and lifted the coils, and have changed the oil to the best grade and quality oil recommended, so the next step is getting right into the engine.
Dealer is going to handle the warranty co as he knows how they work, and he will pay 50% of the costs either way (even if the warranty co pays most but not all - he will cover 50% of what the warranty co doesn't pay and will pay 50% if the warranty co says no to repair).
After much discussion I think given the noise and the mileage, its likely the warranty co will cover it. And taking away the noise, as the car runs perfectly, chances are it will be fine from here onwards once diagnosed and repaired.
I asked him what he was going to do with the car if I did return it to him. Auction. Sold as seen. He would have cut his loses as he has easier money to make than the hassle of having the car fixed and re-advertised. Fair enough. So, the car will get a proper diagnosis and treatment and I will now, find out what on earth is making it sound like a tractor..
If I'd sold the car back to the dealer I would be in the market for another one and hoping more than knowing, the next car isn't going to have issues a couple of months later.
So time will tell if an old, low mileage car is a big avoid for the future..
Had a long, long discussion with dealer and having slept on it last night, I decided to leave the car with the specialist BMW indy the dealer has it at currently, to take the plunge and have a proper look at the engine.
They did get the stethescope on it last week, and lifted the coils, and have changed the oil to the best grade and quality oil recommended, so the next step is getting right into the engine.
Dealer is going to handle the warranty co as he knows how they work, and he will pay 50% of the costs either way (even if the warranty co pays most but not all - he will cover 50% of what the warranty co doesn't pay and will pay 50% if the warranty co says no to repair).
After much discussion I think given the noise and the mileage, its likely the warranty co will cover it. And taking away the noise, as the car runs perfectly, chances are it will be fine from here onwards once diagnosed and repaired.
I asked him what he was going to do with the car if I did return it to him. Auction. Sold as seen. He would have cut his loses as he has easier money to make than the hassle of having the car fixed and re-advertised. Fair enough. So, the car will get a proper diagnosis and treatment and I will now, find out what on earth is making it sound like a tractor..
If I'd sold the car back to the dealer I would be in the market for another one and hoping more than knowing, the next car isn't going to have issues a couple of months later.
So time will tell if an old, low mileage car is a big avoid for the future..
Hi,
Not yet. The dealer is away until this time next week. In the meantime the car will be diagnosed and once the dealer is back, he will contact the warranty co. Worst case scenario, I still part with the car and get my money back if it turns out there are a load of issues that will cost a fortune and it's just not worth progressing.
On the other hand it might not be something so bad and I get the car back and sounding like it did when I bought it...
So it will be at least a week until I hear.
Not yet. The dealer is away until this time next week. In the meantime the car will be diagnosed and once the dealer is back, he will contact the warranty co. Worst case scenario, I still part with the car and get my money back if it turns out there are a load of issues that will cost a fortune and it's just not worth progressing.
On the other hand it might not be something so bad and I get the car back and sounding like it did when I bought it...
So it will be at least a week until I hear.
The answer to the tapping noise...
Spoke to dealer today. The BMW indy specialist found Cylinder no 8 was the culprit. He found marks in the bore. So new new block required.
Mechanic said there is no evidence of the car being misused - no discolouration/colour change at all. He can't find any obvious reason for what he terms 'partial seizure'. He's looked the top end of the engine and all was fine.
The cost for the block alone is £3500 and the advice from the BMW indy is to get a new one straight from BMW. And so a new block is on it's way from Germany as we speak, and will be at the garage mid-next week.
Dealer is contacting the warranty co to log the claim and thinks because there is no evidence of misuse or any other damage, this is a claim that will be honoured. The warranty I got with the car I upgraded at the time I bought the car, to include a claim limit of up to £2k per claim. No excess..(small mercies)
Still going to be an eye-watering bill to pay as between myself and the dealer, there is the £1500 difference between what we expect the warranty co to cough up and the cost of the parts, and then the oil, new filters, labour....
Better be worth it. Surely after this little episode, it will be the cleanest 645 2004 engine there....
Spoke to dealer today. The BMW indy specialist found Cylinder no 8 was the culprit. He found marks in the bore. So new new block required.
Mechanic said there is no evidence of the car being misused - no discolouration/colour change at all. He can't find any obvious reason for what he terms 'partial seizure'. He's looked the top end of the engine and all was fine.
The cost for the block alone is £3500 and the advice from the BMW indy is to get a new one straight from BMW. And so a new block is on it's way from Germany as we speak, and will be at the garage mid-next week.
Dealer is contacting the warranty co to log the claim and thinks because there is no evidence of misuse or any other damage, this is a claim that will be honoured. The warranty I got with the car I upgraded at the time I bought the car, to include a claim limit of up to £2k per claim. No excess..(small mercies)
Still going to be an eye-watering bill to pay as between myself and the dealer, there is the £1500 difference between what we expect the warranty co to cough up and the cost of the parts, and then the oil, new filters, labour....
Better be worth it. Surely after this little episode, it will be the cleanest 645 2004 engine there....
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