The Vietnam war BBC4

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lemmingjames

7,455 posts

204 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
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marcosgt said:
Did I miss something? The hirsute helicopter man was a gunner, not a pilot, wasn't he?

Are people talking about someone else?

M
Was a crew chief in a scout helicopter so was a gunner as well

marcosgt said:
I watched it now and then.

It was a fairly decent attempt to make a drama about the Vietnam War.

The Michael J Fox/Sean Penn film "Casualties of War" is obviously based on the incident mentioned in the recent episode (About the young woman raped and killed over a few days by US soldiers).

M
Theres a book out about the Tiger Force called Tiger Force if youre interested in that

RicksAlfas

13,387 posts

244 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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My copy of Thud Ridge has arrived today.
Should be interesting. Apparently it caused a bit of a stink at the time due to its criticism of the strategy used.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thud_Ridge_(book)


If you like Vietnam books, one of the interviewees on the TV series is Karl Marlantes (smart, composed, bearded chap).
It took him 35 years to get his thoughts down on paper to publish "Matterhorn".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Matterhorn-Karl-Marlantes...
It's quite a book.

anonymous-user

54 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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I've just bought another copy of ChickenHawk to replace my original (1983) one i lent to an (ex) friend and never got back! ;-)

Janluke

2,580 posts

158 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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Max_Torque said:
I've just bought another copy of ChickenHawk to replace my original (1983) one i lent to an (ex) friend and never got back! ;-)
Did the same approx 6 months ago, it's still as powerful IMO

He did a follow on book "Chickenhawk back in the world-life after Vietnam" Has anyone read it?

IanH755

1,858 posts

120 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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Yeap, another very good book. even his fictional books like Solo/Weapon etc are extremely well written with plenty of character to them.

stuartmmcfc

8,661 posts

192 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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Janluke said:
Did the same approx 6 months ago, it's still as powerful IMO

He did a follow on book "Chickenhawk back in the world-life after Vietnam" Has anyone read it?
I’ve got a copy of “back in the world”.
It’s very good, although not a patch on the first if stood alone.
It tells his story about his downward, amateurish, attempts at drug smuggling and his incarceration for it where he starts to be very famous as his first book is published.
I got it off eBay from the States a few years ago.

Janluke

2,580 posts

158 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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Thanks, it's been sat on my Amazon list for a while I think it's time to download it

Eric Mc

121,956 posts

265 months

Monday 16th October 2017
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I'm reading "100 Missions North" by Brigadier General Ken Bell USAF (Ret). He was an F-105 Thunderchief pilot. So far, it's been a good read and keeping me inspired to continue working on the Hasegawa F-105 model I'm building.

prand

5,915 posts

196 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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stuartmmcfc said:
I’ve got a copy of “back in the world”.
It’s very good, although not a patch on the first if stood alone.
It tells his story about his downward, amateurish, attempts at drug smuggling and his incarceration for it where he starts to be very famous as his first book is published.
I got it off eBay from the States a few years ago.
Mason seems to suffer the classic veteran's downward spiral after the war. I'm so glad he was able to write about it and make some sense and value from the experience, I'm sure plenty didn't.

What gets me, and this is taking nothing away from him, was that he was only sent on a single tour. But must have been incredibly intense and stressful (running 1000 missions?) seeing things that nobody should see, which affected him for life.

Makes you think of the impact on those sent for multiple combat tours, and worst of all, the Vietnamese, who had no escape and had to live through this for all those years. I think Captain Willard says something about this in Apocalypse now, that Charlie's R&R is squatting in the jungle with a handful of rice or somesuch...

It's great this war has been documented in such a way, but it seems like nobody has learned from it Perhaps the human condition is so violent, this is inevitable to return over and over.

QuantumTokoloshi

4,162 posts

217 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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Watched some of the PBS original series. The BBC abridged version is well edited, you do miss some of the commentators, but conveys it well. You can watch the full explicit version on the PBS website, if you use a US proxy.

I have a dual interest in the Vietnam war, we have an ex-Huey crew chief in the family, along with many friends and close family who fought in another war, which mirrored Vietnam closely. The futility, conflicted morality, patriotism, conscription, conscription avoidance and long term psychological effects is very familiar.

marcosgt

11,018 posts

176 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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prand said:
Mason seems to suffer the classic veteran's downward spiral after the war. I'm so glad he was able to write about it and make some sense and value from the experience, I'm sure plenty didn't.

What gets me, and this is taking nothing away from him, was that he was only sent on a single tour. But must have been incredibly intense and stressful (running 1000 missions?) seeing things that nobody should see, which affected him for life.

Makes you think of the impact on those sent for multiple combat tours, and worst of all, the Vietnamese, who had no escape and had to live through this for all those years. I think Captain Willard says something about this in Apocalypse now, that Charlie's R&R is squatting in the jungle with a handful of rice or somesuch...

It's great this war has been documented in such a way, but it seems like nobody has learned from it Perhaps the human condition is so violent, this is inevitable to return over and over.
Great line by Nixon in the first of this week's.

"When a US President can't go on visits overseas for fear of violent protest, it's time for a change of leadership"

He might have been a crook (probably no worse than most others though, he just got caught!) and talking about a Democrat, but his words seem very prophetic!

M

Eric Mc

121,956 posts

265 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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Nixon was crooked - but pretty smart.

He was often referred to as "Tricky Dickie". I never ever heard anybody call him "an f***ing moron".

Eddie Strohacker

Original Poster:

3,879 posts

86 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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This series has merely further confirmed the adage that very few honest men have ever set over the threshold of the White House.

QuantumTokoloshi

4,162 posts

217 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
quotequote all
marcosgt said:
prand said:
Mason seems to suffer the classic veteran's downward spiral after the war. I'm so glad he was able to write about it and make some sense and value from the experience, I'm sure plenty didn't.

What gets me, and this is taking nothing away from him, was that he was only sent on a single tour. But must have been incredibly intense and stressful (running 1000 missions?) seeing things that nobody should see, which affected him for life.

Makes you think of the impact on those sent for multiple combat tours, and worst of all, the Vietnamese, who had no escape and had to live through this for all those years. I think Captain Willard says something about this in Apocalypse now, that Charlie's R&R is squatting in the jungle with a handful of rice or somesuch...

It's great this war has been documented in such a way, but it seems like nobody has learned from it Perhaps the human condition is so violent, this is inevitable to return over and over.
Great line by Nixon in the first of this week's.

"When a US President can't go on visits overseas for fear of violent protest, it's time for a change of leadership"

He might have been a crook (probably no worse than most others though, he just got caught!) and talking about a Democrat, but his words seem very prophetic!

M
Was he talking about a change of US leadership or a change of the overseas country leadership?

Eddie Strohacker

Original Poster:

3,879 posts

86 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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QuantumTokoloshi said:
Was he talking about a change of US leadership or a change of the overseas country leadership?
U.S. It was electioneering in 1968.

QuantumTokoloshi

4,162 posts

217 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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Eddie Strohacker said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Was he talking about a change of US leadership or a change of the overseas country leadership?
U.S. It was electioneering in 1968.
`

I was being facetious, sorry. The two seem to go hand in hand.

prand

5,915 posts

196 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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QuantumTokoloshi said:
Was he talking about a change of US leadership or a change of the overseas country leadership?
I was thinking that too! I reckon it's the latter! smile


QuantumTokoloshi

4,162 posts

217 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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DId the BBC version cover the part about Nixon using the South Vietnam government to influence the US election, by convincing them to temporarily not attend the negotiations in Paris ?

Nixon convinced the S vietnam government by promising them a better deal post election, he would be more anti-communist than LBJ. LBJ knew about the deal, due to FBI and CIA phone intercepts (something Nixon took to a whole new level when president) but LBJ could not let it be known due to the legality of the intercepts. Shadows of the recent US election.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 17th October 11:31

stuartmmcfc

8,661 posts

192 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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QuantumTokoloshi said:
DId the BBC version cover the part about Nixon using the South Vietnam government to influence the US election, by convincing them to temporarily not attend the negotiations in Paris ?

Nixon convinced the S vietnam government by promising them a better deal post election, he would be more anti-communist than LBJ. LBJ knew about the deal, due to FBI and CIA phone intercepts (something Nixon took to a whole new level when president) but LBJ could not let it be known due to the legality of the intercepts. Shadows of the recent US election.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 17th October 11:31
Just watched it, yes.
Obviously more important he got into office than lives were saved rolleyes

stuartmmcfc

8,661 posts

192 months

Tuesday 17th October 2017
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Just watched episode 8 and my mouths wide open with shock.