Insignia a20dth and F40 gearbox with clutch issues

Insignia a20dth and F40 gearbox with clutch issues

Author
Discussion

Lucylou31

Original Poster:

6 posts

69 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
Hello,

First time posting and may I firstly apologise for this lengthy post, but I want to give an accurate account.

I have a 2011 cdti 160bhp insignia. My engine partially seized due to low oil pressure. When recovery came the guy said he could use the pulley system, on the flat bed truck, to try and free up the engine while car was in second gear, which seemed to turn the engine. Loaded it up and sent it to mechanics. Had remanufactured a20dth engine replacement and when driving the car my clutch was not right i.e. it would only come up halfway. Then had 3 piece clutch and DMF replaced new, and within 2 miles the same issue. Checked master cylinder and the master cylinder pressure valve, bled it twice and still same issue. Replaced the clutch and DMF again with Sachs and issue returned same day. I'm at my wit's end as this does not make any sense to have 2 brand new clutch and DMF fail. The mechanic is putting a 3rd and last one in on warranty but obviously thinks there must be something else going on and suspects the gearbox shaft my be slightly bent....I'm no mechanic but surely if this is the case would I not feel the vibrations in the gearbox and surely when they put the clutch and DMF in they would noticed it's not straight? Any advice is appreciated.

GreenV8S

30,150 posts

283 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
I'm puzzled. Does the problem only show up when the car is driven?

I don't understand why the fault didn't show up the first time the mechanic sat in the car and pushed the pedal down, or during the test drive. In any case it should have been obvious way before the car got back to you.

It is insane to go to the time and expense of replacing a DMF and clutch without understanding what is wrong with the current one. For all we know it's a seized clutch slave cylinder or release mechanism and nothing to do with the clutch itself.

Lucylou31

Original Poster:

6 posts

69 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
Thanks for the reply. The problem only shows when druving, not when car is stationary and off. Yes I had a go at them stating they should never of given the car back without testing it, but that's bad customer service. Apparently the CSC has been replaced twice and not sure about release mechanism. My worry is that they may now get me to change gearbox when I had no gearbox problems before. My concern is if what the recovery guy did with the pulley system on using the gearbox to turn the engine has caused the issue and that's why we are going through these clutches and DMF s. They've started when they looked at the new dmfs Taht have come out they are failed items which they were not when they went in.

GreenV8S

30,150 posts

283 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
I wouldn't expect any damage from pulling the car along slowly a short distance while it is in gear, even with a seized / partially seized engine.

However, I don't know what happened when the engine seized or what loads that may have put on the gearbox. However, unless something catastrophic happened (the sort of thing that breaks castings), I don't see why the gearbox would have suffered any significant damage to the input shaft. Nothing happening inside the gearbox should affect the operation of the clutch, as long as the input shaft is straight and turns freely.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
More than likely the problem is the mechanic.

And without pulling the whole lot apart you might be lucky to get it resolved

But you are right, in no way should 2 clutches exhibit the same wrong behaviour...unless they were both installed wrong by the same idiot.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Tuesday 19th June 2018
quotequote all
When the pedal only comes up halfway, is the clutch itself fully released at that point i.e. not slipping?

Lucylou31

Original Poster:

6 posts

69 months

Wednesday 20th June 2018
quotequote all
Hi and thanks for the reply. There is no clutch whatso, just that the clutch comes up halfway. The clutch when going up gears 70% of the time fully releases and when coming down gears 80% of the time only comes up half way, but never any slipping.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Wednesday 20th June 2018
quotequote all
Lucylou31 said:
Hi and thanks for the reply. There is no clutch whatso, just that the clutch comes up halfway. The clutch when going up gears 70% of the time fully releases and when coming down gears 80% of the time only comes up half way, but never any slipping.
What I mean is, when the clutch pedal comes up halfway is the clutch engaged or not? if there is no drive to the wheels when this happens (and the car is in gear) then it implies the problem is related to the slave/release bearing.

Lucylou31

Original Poster:

6 posts

69 months

Wednesday 20th June 2018
quotequote all
There is drive to the wheels when clutch comes up halfway

imagineifyeswill

1,224 posts

165 months

Friday 22nd June 2018
quotequote all
Im wondering if hes fitting the driven plate the wrong way round, its sometimes not obvious which way round these solid plates fit and Ive known long experienced mechanics fit them the wrong way.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Saturday 23rd June 2018
quotequote all
imagineifyeswill said:
Im wondering if hes fitting the driven plate the wrong way round, its sometimes not obvious which way round these solid plates fit and Ive known long experienced mechanics fit them the wrong way.
It is always obvious if you look, because it will say on it ( and yes, I've done it wrong too.....and it was written on it, except in german lol )

Little Pete

1,513 posts

93 months

Saturday 23rd June 2018
quotequote all
I had a problem like this some years ago on an Astra after I had fitted a recon gearbox, LUK clutch assembly and DMF. Eventually we got a technical bulletin from LUK saying that on certain engine/gearbox codes fitted between certain dates, the recess in the flywheel where the clutch sits was deeper and needed a different slave cylinder to counteract this.Gearbox out for third time, new cylinder fitted, job sorted. Neither my local dealer nor my gearbox guy were aware of it! Sorry I'm a bit vague on the details.
Also,check the pipe going into the slave is a good fit and the seal is not damaged either. Both of these would give a poor pedal.

Lucylou31

Original Poster:

6 posts

69 months

Saturday 23rd June 2018
quotequote all
Thanks all for the replies and advice. It's going in for the 3rd time, so hopefully 3rd time lucky and will update once issue has been resolved.

Lucylou31

Original Poster:

6 posts

69 months

Tuesday 26th June 2018
quotequote all
Update. When I changed my engine it was a like for like a20dth. The garage is now telling me that there are 4 different types of DMF depending on the year the engine was made and because I don't know what year the replacement engine is, that's the issue for the catastrophic faliures....any advice is appreciated

GreenV8S

30,150 posts

283 months

Tuesday 26th June 2018
quotequote all
Lucylou31 said:
any advice is appreciated
Sounds like the source of the problem has been identified.

Solving it is a problem for the people you paid to supply and fit the replacement. No need for you to tell them how to do it, just be clear that they are responsible for completing the job they were paid for.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 26th June 2018
quotequote all
Lucylou31 said:
Update. When I changed my engine it was a like for like a20dth. The garage is now telling me that there are 4 different types of DMF depending on the year the engine was made and because I don't know what year the replacement engine is, that's the issue for the catastrophic faliures....any advice is appreciated
I would call BS on that.

Speak to Vauxhall directly about what flywheels there are.

While some makers are dumb as fk and change parts often, to say that there are 4 flywheel possibilities for one engine/box/car all in the same year is just utter nonsense. ( Unless it was a french car, then there might be 4000 )

And as they re-used your old gearbox, they would have had the old clutch/flywheel to compare etc etc.

it simply sounds like they are morons and it is up to them to fix their fk up unless you supplied some of these parts on your own.

imagineifyeswill

1,224 posts

165 months

Tuesday 26th June 2018
quotequote all
A few years ago I had a customer ask me to remove the gearbox from his Range Rover, he would have it repaired and I would refit it, he said may as well replace clutch whilst out. Replaced clutch refitted gearbox and clutch wouldnt clear, removed gearbox again couldnt find any fault, local LR dealer assured me that was the correct clutch for that particular vehicle. There was another clutch available but not listed for this vehicle, anyhow decided to fit one, same result. Once again gearbox and clutch removed and comparing clutches both replacement were. a couple of mm difference in depth from the original, dealer had no idea couldnt identify this clutch. Eventually managed to get dealer to look further into the problem and discovered the vehicle had originally been a LR test vehicle and had been fitted from new with an experimental clutch which hadnt shown any benefit over the normal and so had never been put into production so there was no replacement available and not even a known part number. As it wasnt known what other differences there might be in flywheel crank etc we had to refit the original clutch which lasted many more years before the owner traded the vehicle in.