Anti-vax conspiraloons actually killing people.
Discussion
It's not at all surprising that a record number of people in europe have caught measles this year, consequently a portion will suffer life-changing complications and 37 people are dead so far.
BBC said:
Italy's upper house of parliament recently voted through legislation to abolish the law that makes vaccination mandatory for children before they start school. The amendment will mean parents of unvaccinated children will no longer face fines.
Dr Mary Ramsay, head of immunisation at PHE - "The majority of cases we are seeing are in teenagers and young adults who missed out on their MMR vaccine when they were children."
FFS.Dr Mary Ramsay, head of immunisation at PHE - "The majority of cases we are seeing are in teenagers and young adults who missed out on their MMR vaccine when they were children."
It’s awful. This sort of anti-science kills and maims people, mainly children, and for no possible advantage.
Given how vaccines work, and how not everyone is able to be vaccinated, it also means that those who have done everything right will be affected too.
We’ve some strange views on vaccines in the U.K. on occasion too, such as nurseries not being allowed to insist on the children having their vaccinations.
Given how vaccines work, and how not everyone is able to be vaccinated, it also means that those who have done everything right will be affected too.
We’ve some strange views on vaccines in the U.K. on occasion too, such as nurseries not being allowed to insist on the children having their vaccinations.
The Wakefield farce was a real eye-opener to how malleable we are as a species. It's been as comprehensively debunked as a piece of work can be, and yet it persists. And rather than disappearing in disgrace, Wakefield is still making money off it and was even at Trump's inauguration.
The people who spread this stuff use the real disasters of the pharmaceutical industry to sow the seeds of doubt, then can basically say whatever they want and some people will go for it.
I think in the age of information, critical thinking needs to be taught as its own subject in school. The older generations are too far gone.
The people who spread this stuff use the real disasters of the pharmaceutical industry to sow the seeds of doubt, then can basically say whatever they want and some people will go for it.
I think in the age of information, critical thinking needs to be taught as its own subject in school. The older generations are too far gone.
James_B said:
Given how vaccines work, and how not everyone is able to be vaccinated, it also means that those who have done everything right will be affected too.
Yep - anti vaccine nuts are not only putting their own kids at risk - they are also sticking two fingers up at everyone else too.Pricks.
No drug is 100% safe......but the point is, they are a a hell of a lot safer than the disease they are meant to treat/prevent.
durbster said:
The Wakefield farce was a real eye-opener to how malleable we are as a species. It's been as comprehensively debunked as a piece of work can be, and yet it persists. And rather than disappearing in disgrace, Wakefield is still making money off it and was even at Trump's inauguration.
Indeed. Absolute thunder.s2art said:
?? The older generations (at least the ones who had good educations) were taught critical thinking.
Were they? Prior to the internet age, people got their information from trusted sources such as newspapers or TV. There wasn't much opportunity to investigate anything yourself so you didn't really have much choice. There was no need to learn how to parse vast amounts of information yourself, so why would they have learnt how?
durbster said:
The Wakefield farce was a real eye-opener to how malleable we are as a species. It's been as comprehensively debunked as a piece of work can be, and yet it persists. And rather than disappearing in disgrace, Wakefield is still making money off it and was even at Trump's inauguration.
The people who spread this stuff use the real disasters of the pharmaceutical industry to sow the seeds of doubt, then can basically say whatever they want and some people will go for it.
I think in the age of information, critical thinking needs to be taught as its own subject in school. The older generations are too far gone.
And he is now dating Elle MacPherson!!!! The people who spread this stuff use the real disasters of the pharmaceutical industry to sow the seeds of doubt, then can basically say whatever they want and some people will go for it.
I think in the age of information, critical thinking needs to be taught as its own subject in school. The older generations are too far gone.
durbster said:
Were they? Prior to the internet age, people got their information from trusted sources such as newspapers or TV. There wasn't much opportunity to investigate anything yourself so you didn't really have much choice.
There was no need to learn how to parse vast amounts of information yourself, so why would they have learnt how?
So they had no idea they were being lied to There was no need to learn how to parse vast amounts of information yourself, so why would they have learnt how?
The article says that most cases are in teenagers and young adults who missed out on vaccination. There's one shot at one year old and the second (booster) shot at 4 (?) to catch those who didn't get immunity after the first shot. So the timing doesn't quite line up with the majority of the anti-vaxxer movement. There's also no details on where these cases came from - are they people from countries which didn't have much in the way of an MMR program? Or are they children of the very first anti-vaxxers who were safe in an immune herd but started running with a not-so-disease free herd? The numbers seem high for UK, based on the timing and the cases and that you've had MMR vaccination since day dot.
There's also the possibility that two doses isn't enough for some people. They lose immunity, come into contact with a carrier and bang they've got it. I'm in Australia and did a quick google to find out more:
https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/country...
https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/why-australia-st...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-23/anti-vaccina...
There's also the possibility that two doses isn't enough for some people. They lose immunity, come into contact with a carrier and bang they've got it. I'm in Australia and did a quick google to find out more:
https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/country...
https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/why-australia-st...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-23/anti-vaccina...
What always amuses me when I read threads like this is my old plumber saying doctors are liars and they didn't save millions of lives, plumbers did. That it was clean water and good hygiene and sewer plumbing etc stopped diseases rapidly and long before vaccines - he had a massive rant whilst fixing our taps !!
Jinx said:
durbster said:
Were they? Prior to the internet age, people got their information from trusted sources such as newspapers or TV. There wasn't much opportunity to investigate anything yourself so you didn't really have much choice.
There was no need to learn how to parse vast amounts of information yourself, so why would they have learnt how?
So they had no idea they were being lied to There was no need to learn how to parse vast amounts of information yourself, so why would they have learnt how?
I guess he's right in a roundabout sort of way. But cleaners working in food factories could say the same sort of thing.
Doctors, or scientists at least, have worked out the causes of infection, and extrapolated those into solutions for other illnesses.
I doubt the guild of honourable plumbers (or whatever they call themselves) were calling for mass reform of drinking water regulations before doctors made the link to water borne diseases.
Doctors, or scientists at least, have worked out the causes of infection, and extrapolated those into solutions for other illnesses.
I doubt the guild of honourable plumbers (or whatever they call themselves) were calling for mass reform of drinking water regulations before doctors made the link to water borne diseases.
Ian Geary said:
I doubt the guild of honourable plumbers (or whatever they call themselves) were calling for mass reform of drinking water regulations before doctors made the link to water borne diseases.
………. whilst kitting out water supply systems using neurotoxic lead pipes, what could possibly go wrong? durbster said:
s2art said:
?? The older generations (at least the ones who had good educations) were taught critical thinking.
Were they? Prior to the internet age, people got their information from trusted sources such as newspapers or TV. There wasn't much opportunity to investigate anything yourself so you didn't really have much choice. There was no need to learn how to parse vast amounts of information yourself, so why would they have learnt how?
Do you really think we blindly believed the media of the day?
Jasandjules said:
What always amuses me when I read threads like this is my old plumber saying doctors are liars and they didn't save millions of lives, plumbers did. That it was clean water and good hygiene and sewer plumbing etc stopped diseases rapidly and long before vaccines - he had a massive rant whilst fixing our taps !!
Um, he's right? Clean water and proper sewage for all would probably prevent more disease than any other one single measure worldwide.
bloomen said:
Jasandjules said:
What always amuses me when I read threads like this is my old plumber saying doctors are liars and they didn't save millions of lives, plumbers did. That it was clean water and good hygiene and sewer plumbing etc stopped diseases rapidly and long before vaccines - he had a massive rant whilst fixing our taps !!
Um, he's right? Clean water and proper sewage for all would probably prevent more disease than any other one single measure worldwide.
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