Is Ducati skimping on quality control again?
Discussion
I thought old days of unreliable Ducatis were gone, but it seems the latest V4 has recall after recall after recall.
The latest one - due to potential timing chain defect. Solution, according to Ducati, is to tighten timing chain bolts...
Wait, what? The bolts were loose from the factory? That is a bit disconcerting.
Italians, you gotta love them....
The latest one - due to potential timing chain defect. Solution, according to Ducati, is to tighten timing chain bolts...
Wait, what? The bolts were loose from the factory? That is a bit disconcerting.
Italians, you gotta love them....
Tango13 said:
Ducati had a cutaway V4 at the NEC bike show and a car mechanic mate took one look at the cam chain and commented that VW use the same chain in their cars and they stretch 'cos they're s
te...
I guess that also depends on a model of VW?te...I remember they had Big problems with the 3.2 V6 engine in TTs, the chain stretch problem.
Like another poster said it cannot be the same force running through car chain and bike chain though?
6krpm max in a car against 10,12, 14, 16k rpm plus on a bike with a far far higher specific output?
i would have thought more stress through the bike chain.
considering the chain on my 1.4 golf skipped 3 links and required sorted at £2k i'd want the chain on my bike sorting.
i would have thought more stress through the bike chain.
considering the chain on my 1.4 golf skipped 3 links and required sorted at £2k i'd want the chain on my bike sorting.
Edited by pessimal on Monday 17th December 09:00
graylag said:
It’s a new model. Pretty much every car and bike ever made have recalls on a regular basis to rectify defects.
Didn’t the S1000RR have a similar problem in its first iteration?
Sure thing, each one has had recalls.Didn’t the S1000RR have a similar problem in its first iteration?
I have GSXR1000, it had now 2 recalls I believe, ECU and now some fuel pump seal.
BMW, Yamaha...
Seems Ducati has a (significantly) longer list of recalls on V4 Panigale though?
Ho Lee Kau said:
graylag said:
It’s a new model. Pretty much every car and bike ever made have recalls on a regular basis to rectify defects.
Didn’t the S1000RR have a similar problem in its first iteration?
Sure thing, each one has had recalls.Didn’t the S1000RR have a similar problem in its first iteration?
I have GSXR1000, it had now 2 recalls I believe, ECU and now some fuel pump seal.
BMW, Yamaha...
Seems Ducati has a (significantly) longer list of recalls on V4 Panigale though?
1) Timing chain bolts cause an oil leak (not tension failure)
2) Oil cooler port cracking
3) A bad batch of Brembo rear pads
4) A bad batch of Brembo master cylinders
5) Fuel cap pressurising
Doesn't seem too bad for a totally new engine. Worth noting that not all bikes have every issue - the brake pads were 72 bikes iirc.
Edited by Krikkit on Monday 17th December 09:06
Krikkit said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
graylag said:
It’s a new model. Pretty much every car and bike ever made have recalls on a regular basis to rectify defects.
Didn’t the S1000RR have a similar problem in its first iteration?
Sure thing, each one has had recalls.Didn’t the S1000RR have a similar problem in its first iteration?
I have GSXR1000, it had now 2 recalls I believe, ECU and now some fuel pump seal.
BMW, Yamaha...
Seems Ducati has a (significantly) longer list of recalls on V4 Panigale though?
1) Timing chain bolts cause an oil leak (not tension failure)
2) Oil cooler port cracking
3) A bad batch of Brembo rear pads
4) A bad batch of Brembo master cylinders
5) Fuel cap pressurising
Doesn't seem too bad for a totally new engine. Worth noting that not all bikes have every issue - the brake pads were 72 bikes iirc.
Edited by Krikkit on Monday 17th December 09:06
maybe not that bad then, the list of teething problems
Ho Lee Kau said:
How many have you done so far, Walter?
I’ve done the fuel breather/filler, the clutch master cylinder and I had to have some warranty work due to a failing rear wheel bearing.I don’t think the oil cooler or can tensioners are going to start until next year now, but that’s ok with me it’s not getting ridden at the moment anyway.
We had pretty much this exact thread when the V4 was first released when the first of the recalls. I think consensus last time was it's just par the course really...
In many ways I feel sorry for Ducati, they're still being scrutinised quite harshly for historical reliability issues despite new ownership, new ethos, and completely new machinery. It looks so hard for a manufacturer to cast aside those sweeping generalisations.
I mean the same goes for BMW. I think the S1000RR, it was the big ends which weren't tightened sufficiently on some engines wasn't it? They traced the issue all the way back, sorted it, then recalled all those affected. That aside, they still get a bad rep' for their switchgear failures, driveshafts leaking, etc. But ultimately they sell stloads to loyal customers with high expectations, and this year they put their money where their mouth is, and are confident enough to stick another year on their manufacturer warranty.
Meanwhile, "bulletproof" Honda (who don't offer the warranty duration BMW do), the brand famous for "exceptional finish", has acknowledged that it's Adventure bike rusts like a bd, that's a semi-off road bike that dissolves in mud... Oh and they have recalls too! The new Fireblade has had at least one "safety" recall I know of where it leaks water into the fuel tank.
I'm still a fan of Japanese metal when it comes to reliability, but I think the days of it being an absolutely truth are either long over, or never existed in the first place. But I also think Ducati sadly suffers from the opposite effect, that is the perception that all Italian built machinery is a time bomb, but with customer expectations of their £25,000 bike being so high, I just really don't see it. Ultimately the V4 is an exceptional bike, and it's borderline uncharted territories it sits in, so you've got to give Ducati some quarter, surely?
In many ways I feel sorry for Ducati, they're still being scrutinised quite harshly for historical reliability issues despite new ownership, new ethos, and completely new machinery. It looks so hard for a manufacturer to cast aside those sweeping generalisations.
I mean the same goes for BMW. I think the S1000RR, it was the big ends which weren't tightened sufficiently on some engines wasn't it? They traced the issue all the way back, sorted it, then recalled all those affected. That aside, they still get a bad rep' for their switchgear failures, driveshafts leaking, etc. But ultimately they sell s
tloads to loyal customers with high expectations, and this year they put their money where their mouth is, and are confident enough to stick another year on their manufacturer warranty. Meanwhile, "bulletproof" Honda (who don't offer the warranty duration BMW do), the brand famous for "exceptional finish", has acknowledged that it's Adventure bike rusts like a b
d, that's a semi-off road bike that dissolves in mud... Oh and they have recalls too! The new Fireblade has had at least one "safety" recall I know of where it leaks water into the fuel tank.I'm still a fan of Japanese metal when it comes to reliability, but I think the days of it being an absolutely truth are either long over, or never existed in the first place. But I also think Ducati sadly suffers from the opposite effect, that is the perception that all Italian built machinery is a time bomb, but with customer expectations of their £25,000 bike being so high, I just really don't see it. Ultimately the V4 is an exceptional bike, and it's borderline uncharted territories it sits in, so you've got to give Ducati some quarter, surely?
Edited by Prof Prolapse on Monday 17th December 11:10
pessimal said:
6krpm max in a car against 10,12, 14, 16k rpm plus on a bike with a far far higher specific output?
i would have thought more stress through the bike chain.
considering the chain on my 1.4 golf skipped 3 links and required sorted at £2k i'd want the chain on my bike sorting.
Desmos are very different though, because the valves are positively closed (rather than by spring) the stress on the chain is *far* lower. i would have thought more stress through the bike chain.
considering the chain on my 1.4 golf skipped 3 links and required sorted at £2k i'd want the chain on my bike sorting.
I'm reasonably certain for example that if you had a loose head you could turn the camshafts by hand, not a hope in hell of doing that on a conventional head with valve springs.
Rawwr said:
Historical reputation works both ways, though. People still buy German cars because of the materials, fit and reliability 
That's true actually, I like to be level headed, but secretly yearn for a Ducati V4 because on some level I honestly believe that, because it's Italian and red, it will be at least £15,000 more fun than it's Japanese equivalent, and will make me look more attractive to the opposite sex.A similar mentality presumably accounts for the majority of all Ducati sales.
Prof Prolapse said:
That's true actually, I like to be level headed, but secretly yearn for a Ducati V4 because on some level I honestly believe that, because it's Italian and red, it will be at least £15,000 more fun than it's Japanese equivalent, and will make me look more attractive to the opposite sex.
A similar mentality presumably accounts for the majority of all Ducati sales.
Be careful. I suggested something similar about Hayabusas and am now public enemy number 1A similar mentality presumably accounts for the majority of all Ducati sales.
Prof Prolapse said:
Rawwr said:
Historical reputation works both ways, though. People still buy German cars because of the materials, fit and reliability
That's true actually, I like to be level headed, but secretly yearn for a Ducati V4 because on some level I honestly believe that, because it's Italian and red, it will be at least £15,000 more fun than it's Japanese equivalent, and will make me look more attractive to the opposite sex.A similar mentality presumably accounts for the majority of all Ducati sales.
Prof Prolapse said:
We had pretty much this exact thread when the V4 was first released when the first of the recalls. I think consensus last time was it's just par the course really...
In many ways I feel sorry for Ducati, they're still being scrutinised quite harshly for historical reliability issues despite new ownership, new ethos, and completely new machinery. It looks so hard for a manufacturer to cast aside those sweeping generalisations.
I mean the same goes for BMW. I think the S1000RR, it was the big ends which weren't tightened sufficiently on some engines wasn't it? They traced the issue all the way back, sorted it, then recalled all those affected. That aside, they still get a bad rep' for their switchgear failures, driveshafts leaking, etc. But ultimately they sell stloads to loyal customers with high expectations, and this year they put their money where their mouth is, and are confident enough to stick another year on their manufacturer warranty.
Meanwhile, "bulletproof" Honda (who don't offer the warranty duration BMW do), the brand famous for "exceptional finish", has acknowledged that it's Adventure bike rusts like a bd, that's a semi-off road bike that dissolves in mud... Oh and they have recalls too! The new Fireblade has had at least one "safety" recall I know of where it leaks water into the fuel tank.
I'm still a fan of Japanese metal when it comes to reliability, but I think the days of it being an absolutely truth are either long over, or never existed in the first place. But I also think Ducati sadly suffers from the opposite effect, that is the perception that all Italian built machinery is a time bomb, but with customer expectations of their £25,000 bike being so high, I just really don't see it. Ultimately the V4 is an exceptional bike, and it's borderline uncharted territories it sits in, so you've got to give Ducati some quarter, surely?
I expected a few teething problems to be honest, yes it’s annoying that there are more but like you say it’s a brand new model and is bound to have a few issues, Ducati and the dealership where I bought it have been nothing but helpful, quick and proactive when it’s come to sorting the issues, and overall it is a fantastic bike, so yes I’m happy to give Ducati some quarter, of you want a V4, honestly go for it, definately not something you’re likely to regret.
In many ways I feel sorry for Ducati, they're still being scrutinised quite harshly for historical reliability issues despite new ownership, new ethos, and completely new machinery. It looks so hard for a manufacturer to cast aside those sweeping generalisations.
I mean the same goes for BMW. I think the S1000RR, it was the big ends which weren't tightened sufficiently on some engines wasn't it? They traced the issue all the way back, sorted it, then recalled all those affected. That aside, they still get a bad rep' for their switchgear failures, driveshafts leaking, etc. But ultimately they sell s
tloads to loyal customers with high expectations, and this year they put their money where their mouth is, and are confident enough to stick another year on their manufacturer warranty. Meanwhile, "bulletproof" Honda (who don't offer the warranty duration BMW do), the brand famous for "exceptional finish", has acknowledged that it's Adventure bike rusts like a b
d, that's a semi-off road bike that dissolves in mud... Oh and they have recalls too! The new Fireblade has had at least one "safety" recall I know of where it leaks water into the fuel tank.I'm still a fan of Japanese metal when it comes to reliability, but I think the days of it being an absolutely truth are either long over, or never existed in the first place. But I also think Ducati sadly suffers from the opposite effect, that is the perception that all Italian built machinery is a time bomb, but with customer expectations of their £25,000 bike being so high, I just really don't see it. Ultimately the V4 is an exceptional bike, and it's borderline uncharted territories it sits in, so you've got to give Ducati some quarter, surely?
I expected a few teething problems to be honest, yes it’s annoying that there are more but like you say it’s a brand new model and is bound to have a few issues, Ducati and the dealership where I bought it have been nothing but helpful, quick and proactive when it’s come to sorting the issues, and overall it is a fantastic bike, so yes I’m happy to give Ducati some quarter, of you want a V4, honestly go for it, definately not something you’re likely to regret.
Edited by Prof Prolapse on Monday 17th December 11:10
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