997 GT2 Geo

[stef1808]

Hi,

I Did my last geo from Manthey racing when the car was at the 'Ring

Today it went for wheel alignment on a hunter machine and got these confusing results.

I believe my rear suspension is failing ALSO, have uploaded pics but not clear with the wheel on

Front:
12cm Height (measured with a ruler
3*28 2*56
9*21 9*20
0*03 0*01

Back
13.5cm
2.38 2*46
0*14 0*20
0*34 -0*03

The wear was acceptable on the track but now looking for more usability for fast road driving. Slightly more aggressive than stock is ideal.

On the hunter machine there was no settings for a 09 GT2 only GT3/GT3RS 06-09 - I would pressume stock setups is fairly simmilar on the GT2?

Appreciate your input

[TB993tt]

Try posting on Rennlist you'll likely get a better response.

[Yellow491]

Did you fit new tyres or have the geo checked on worn tyres,this will effect your outcomes.
For fast road ,just knock some camber off,rear toe needs looking at.
2 differant users and two different venues can give you different readings.
A slight buckle in a wheel can put all out,if not checked correctly
What or why are you saying your rear sus is failing.
Turbos normaly have a bit of anti squat built in to cope withpoeer delivery if driving like you stole it
Take it to chris at centre of gravity if you are in the uk,i do my own the old fashioned way with strings so i dont know who else to recommend ,most opc are less than useless.

[stef1808]

Thanks for your reply.

I checked on 6speed and found this guide:

GT3/RS/GT2

STREET/OCCASIONAL TRACK
Camber Toe per corner Caster Sway Bar
Front -1.8° +0.2mm - TPC bar 4
Rear -2.0° +2.0mm - TPC bar 2

HALF TRACK/HALF STREET
Camber Toe per corner Caster Sway Bar
Front -2.5° -0.3mm - TPC bar 3
Rear -2.0° +2.0mm - TPC bar 2

¾ TRACK/OCCASIONAL STREET
Camber Toe per corner Caster Sway Bar
Front -2.7° -0.7mm - TPC bar 3
Rear -2.2° +2.0mm - TPC bar 2

FULL TRACK SETUP
Camber Toe per corner Caster Sway Bar
Front -3.0° -1.0mm - TPC bar 3
Rear -2.4° +2.0mm - TPC bar 3*

I think I will start with the half track / street setup. -2.5* sounds fun.

does it not look like the coil overs are failing in the pictures?

[Slippydiff]

stef1808 said:

Thanks for your reply.

I checked on 6speed and found this guide:

GT3/RS/GT2

STREET/OCCASIONAL TRACK
Camber Toe per corner Caster Sway Bar
Front -1.8° +0.2mm - TPC bar 4
Rear -2.0° +2.0mm - TPC bar 2

HALF TRACK/HALF STREET
Camber Toe per corner Caster Sway Bar
Front -2.5° -0.3mm - TPC bar 3
Rear -2.0° +2.0mm - TPC bar 2

¾ TRACK/OCCASIONAL STREET
Camber Toe per corner Caster Sway Bar
Front -2.7° -0.7mm - TPC bar 3
Rear -2.2° +2.0mm - TPC bar 2

FULL TRACK SETUP
Camber Toe per corner Caster Sway Bar
Front -3.0° -1.0mm - TPC bar 3
Rear -2.4° +2.0mm - TPC bar 3*

I think I will start with the half track / street setup. -2.5* sounds fun.

does it not look like the coil overs are failing in the pictures?

The surface finish on the springs looks to be corroded, it’s a pretty standard problem on Porsche GT cars in my experience. It doesn’t mean your coilovers are failing. Replacement of the springs with OE items will probably cost £100-125 per corner.

In my experience replacing them restores some ride quality and makes the car nicer to drive, but replacement of the springs means removing both the front and rear dampers.

You may find the spring seats /height adjustment collars are seized when you come to adjust them as the car is close to 10 years old now. The seized collars will need to be removed, and the threads on the damper bodies cleaned up and lubricated (IF the dampers themselves are serviceable/not leaking) If not, the dampers will need replacing as well as the springs.

As Paul said, Center Gravity are one of several outfits that can do this work. Others I’d recommend would be Fearnsport or Mike Burke at Sports and Classic.

[stef1808]

Slippydiff said:

The surface finish on the springs looks to be corroded, it’s a pretty standard problem on Porsche GT cars in my experience. It doesn’t mean your coilovers are failing. Replacement of the springs with OE items will probably cost £100-125 per corner.

In my experience replacing them restores some ride quality and makes the car nicer to drive, but replacement of the springs means removing both the front and rear dampers.

You may find the spring seats /height adjustment collars are seized when you come to adjust them as the car is close to 10 years old now. The seized collars will need to be removed, and the threads on the damper bodies cleaned up and lubricated (IF the dampers themselves are serviceable/not leaking) If not, the dampers will need replacing as well as the springs.

As Paul said, Center Gravity are one of several outfits that can do this work. Others I’d recommend would be Fearnsport or Mike Burke at Sports and Classic.

Thanks for your help.

we put the car up on a ramp - the rear left spring is snapped in half and the right side isnt looking too healthy either. Theres a lot leaked oil so for now pressuming its dead.

If so im considering b16's and keepingthe tpc dsc otherwise clubsports.

Clubsportd are about £4k where b16s 3k and the dsc was 1k

Cheers

[IMI A]

Worth maybe looking at the DDA tractive dampers TPC do too?

[gtsralph]

IMI A said:

Worth maybe looking at the DDA tractive dampers TPC do too?

Bilstein dampers don't respond fast enough to keep up with DSC mapping outputs, Tractive do. Also Bilstein don't respond mid stroke unlike Tractive dampers.

If DSC Sport had been more clear on this I would not have used Damptronics.

[IMI A]

TB993t has them on his beast

[stef1808]

I bought the dsc module after reading all the hype about the unit. After installing it in the car it was kept and mostly driven on the ring and spa and truthfuly I didn't think it lived up to all the hype.

Perhaps it because on faster tracks the dampening is not so noticeable?

Either way it gives me second thoughts about the tractive DDA.

For me the most noticeable changes in handling was when using aggressive track settings with -2.8 camber up front

I would same im an intermediate level driver, with some tin tops racing experience and a heavy right foot.

Edited by stef1808 on Tuesday 29th January 09:32

[IMI A]

stef1808 said:

I bought the dsc module after reading all the hype about the unit. After installing it in the car it was kept and mostly driven on the ring and spa and truthfuly I didn't think it lived up to all the hype.

Perhaps it because on faster tracks the dampening is not so noticeable?

Either way it gives me second thoughts about the tractive DDA.

For me the most noticeable changes in handling was when using aggressive track settings with -2.8 camber up front

I would same im an intermediate level driver, with some tin tops racing experience and a heavy right foot.

Edited by stef1808 on Tuesday 29th January 09:32

Good to know. DSC definitely improved compliance on road and track for turbo but coming from lower handling capability than GT2. I wonder if a few boxes faulty?

[Slippydiff]

stef1808 said:

I bought the dsc module after reading all the hype about the unit. After installing it in the car it was kept and mostly driven on the ring and spa and truthfuly I didn't think it lived up to all the hype.

Perhaps it because on faster tracks the dampening is not so noticeable?

Either way it gives me second thoughts about the tractive DDA.

For me the most noticeable changes in handling was when using aggressive track settings with -2.8 camber up front

I would same im an intermediate level driver, with some tin tops racing experience and a heavy right foot.

I thought the OE Bilstein PASM dampers weren't serviceable, but apparently they are. I'd get the dampers rebuilt and fit a new set of OE springs. Correctly set up (ride heights and corner weights) you'll be surprised at the difference.

[luigisayshello]

stef1808 said:

I bought the dsc module after reading all the hype about the unit. After installing it in the car it was kept and mostly driven on the ring and spa and truthfuly I didn't think it lived up to all the hype.

Perhaps it because on faster tracks the dampening is not so noticeable?

Either way it gives me second thoughts about the tractive DDA.

For me the most noticeable changes in handling was when using aggressive track settings with -2.8 camber up front

I would same im an intermediate level driver, with some tin tops racing experience and a heavy right foot.

Edited by stef1808 on Tuesday 29th January 09:32

What didn't you like? Do you understand that dsc as it comes is quite bland and very similar to oem just with a bigger and improved usage of the damper and that the whole point is to adjust it to what you want from the car?
Tractive is just a whole 2 new levels over a well setup dsc.
If you need help I think Center Gravity has been trying dsc module setup for a while, so they should be able to help you.
But it's pretty straight foward tho.

[stef1808]

luigisayshello said:

What didn't you like? Do you understand that dsc as it comes is quite bland and very similar to oem just with a bigger and improved usage of the damper and that the whole point is to adjust it to what you want from the car? *

Its not that I dislike the dsc - im just saying the handling characteristics isn't as amazing as everyone made out it to be (stock pasm)
Perhaps I just had too high expectations of what it can do.

• Actually I had no idea - I thought it was just plug and play and sorted out the dampening by it self - in fact literally all I did was plug it in. No coding or anything....

The car is now sitting in Greece with the broken suspension. Plan A was to ship the pasm back to UK and get it refurbed as per Slippydiff - the problem is I cant leave the car sitting without suspension at the shop - they wont take it. The means either finding a cheap broken suspension for the time being for the car or just going straight for new coilover such as the DDA or clubsports

[IMI A]

Maybe pm TB993tt and ask him what the DDA tractive and module have been like on his 7 GT2?

[Slippydiff]

stef1808 said:

Its not that I dislike the dsc - im just saying the handling characteristics isn't as amazing as everyone made out it to be (stock pasm)
Perhaps I just had too high expectations of what it can do.

• Actually I had no idea - I thought it was just plug and play and sorted out the dampening by it self - in fact literally all I did was plug it in. No coding or anything....

The car is now sitting in Greece with the broken suspension. Plan A was to ship the pasm back to UK and get it refurbed as per Slippydiff - the problem is I cant leave the car sitting without suspension at the shop - they wont take it. The means either finding a cheap broken suspension for the time being for the car or just going straight for new coilover such as the DDA or clubsports

Worthwhile having a chat with BertBert ? His is a GT3 rather than a 2, but maybe he could lend you them, or you could buy them and have them rebuilt with the original KW Clubsport GT2 spring rates.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[stef1808]

Ok now I feel slightly embarrassed. Had no idea there was calibration files and software for the dsc.

Will have a play around tonight.

Ive spoekn to a few poeple about suspension - it seems everyone's happy with their choices at any price point. Ive no gone of the idea of the b16s as dont see them as a big eonugh upgrade to justify the price.

Latest im considering is a custom pair of 3 way adjustable nitrons r3 and getting it setup when the cars next at the 'ring (next season)

I thought coilovers shopping would be fun but this is turning into a nightmare

[Slippydiff]

stef1808 said:

I thought coilovers shopping would be fun but this is turning into a nightmare

It’s a nightmare, and if you decide to go for a custom build, it’s an even bigger nightmare ...

If you’re thinking of going with Nitrons, you should also really be considering Ohlins, Motons, KW’s etc

[stef1808]

Last question I think:

If I do go for the KW / Motons route; does this mean I need to get the rebound/compression setup by a proper shop or can i try with preset values like with the Geo?

edit: If it does then I think I will settle for b16 damptronics.

will also to this at the same time:

https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod138622/RSS-Tarm...

Is there a stage 2 / better parts / missing anything? Will also get the LSD looked out which is possibly almost finished also.

Edited by stef1808 on Friday 1st February 12:08

[Slippydiff]

stef1808 said:

Last question I think:

If I do go for the KW / Motons route; does this mean I need to get the rebound/compression setup by a proper shop or can i try with preset values like with the Geo?

Matt at Fearnsport has fitted Nitrons to a 997 GT2 previously, and he was very impressed with the results.
Nitron, Moton and KW should all give you a baseline settings to enable you to drive the car, these can be adjusted to suit your driving style.