Driving licence question

[sunbeam alpine]

I'm a UK national living in Belgium (been here for years). I've received a letter today notifying me that (as a result of Brexit) I need to exchange my UK driving licence for a Belgian one before 29th March.

I haven't bothered up to now because
a) Belgium didn't require it
b) I have the old-style green paper licence with just old classes A&E

My work requires me to tow trailers up to 3.5t. As I passed my test in 1981 I have this automatically, although it's not expressly stated on my licence. When I went to enquire at our local town hall, they will only give me a Belgian car licence - I would lose the "grandfathers rights" bit on my UL licence.

If I first exchange my UK licence for a modern one, will the updated licence contain these extra groups, then I can exchange it for a Belgian one and be able to tow?

Google & DVLA web site aren't helping

Thanks!

[InitialDave]

That sounds like a question for the Belgian side of things rather than the UK side of things, surely?

[sunbeam alpine]

InitialDave said:

That sounds like a question for the Belgian side of things rather than the UK side of things, surely?

I've asked in Belgium. Because my licence is so old it doesn't have any categories they recognise, they will give me a car licence, but I would have to take a trailer test.

I have categories A & E on an old green paper licence. If I had a newer licence which reflected the current categories, it would be easier.

I tow heavy trailers (using vans/Land Rover/Toyota Hilux) - where the total weight is up to 6.5 tonnes. I believe that I can do this with my licence?

[brman]

IIRC what you need is BE on your current licence. I got my A&E back in about 1985 and now have A, B, BE, B1, C1, CE1, D1, D1E on my card. If you don't isnt that an issue for DVLA rather than belgium as the UK appear to have forgotten what you had......

[InitialDave]

I mean the question of whether a newly issued UK licence would generate a Belgian one with the same categories.

[sunbeam alpine]

brman said:

IIRC what you need is BE on your current licence. I got my A&E back in about 1985 and now have A, B, BE, B1, C1, CE1, D1, D1E on my card. If you don't isnt that an issue for DVLA rather than belgium as the UK appear to have forgotten what you had......

Indeed -thanks for that! Did you get the additional classes by exchanging your old licence, or have you taken additional tests?

I haven't updated my details with the DVLA since about 1990. The address on my licence is still my UK address, so any correspondence would still reach me.

Any idea how quickly they can issue a new style licence?

[sunbeam alpine]

InitialDave said:

I mean the question of whether a newly issued UK licence would generate a Belgian one with the same categories.

Yes - that would be no problem.

[Steve57]

Yes only car test taken in 93,

[brman]

sunbeam alpine said:

brman said:

IIRC what you need is BE on your current licence. I got my A&E back in about 1985 and now have A, B, BE, B1, C1, CE1, D1, D1E on my card. If you don't isnt that an issue for DVLA rather than belgium as the UK appear to have forgotten what you had......

Indeed -thanks for that! Did you get the additional classes by exchanging your old licence, or have you taken additional tests?

I haven't updated my details with the DVLA since about 1990. The address on my licence is still my UK address, so any correspondence would still reach me.

Any idea how quickly they can issue a new style licence?

just took a car test and a bike test. Nothing else. These are the categories they gave me when I got my card licence in early 2012.

[hutchst]

And to answer your other question I renewed mine when I was back in the UK a year or so ago. Did the application online and the new licence arrived in the post in under a week.

[macushla]

Given that you need an updated U.K. licence wouldn’t it be best to get it sorted now, rather than wait and ask questions? If you need this for work, then why would you choose to keep an out of date licence? I know there’s some sort of kudos about having a ratty old piece of paper held together with sellotape, but not when your livelihood potentially depends on it.

I’d just get it sent in ASAP and you’ll get a nice new photo card licence with all the categories you need inside a couple of weeks. There will no doubt be a load of people claiming that DVLA took all of their categories away amd issues a pilots licence for long haul only instead, but I’d take them with a pinch of salt.

The cost of the photo card licence is bugger all at £20 for 10 years, probably less than you lose in loose change a year, when you consider it’s 1/2p a day.

[Pica-Pica]

macushla said:

Given that you need an updated U.K. licence wouldn’t it be best to get it sorted now, rather than wait and ask questions? If you need this for work, then why would you choose to keep an out of date licence? I know there’s some sort of kudos about having a ratty old piece of paper held together with sellotape, but not when your livelihood potentially depends on it.

I’d just get it sent in ASAP and you’ll get a nice new photo card licence with all the categories you need inside a couple of weeks. There will no doubt be a load of people claiming that DVLA took all of their categories away amd issues a pilots licence for long haul only instead, but I’d take them with a pinch of salt.

The cost of the photo card licence is bugger all at £20 for 10 years, probably less than you lose in loose change a year, when you consider it’s 1/2p a day.

Indeed.
Also if you have a current passport, your facial photograph will transferred across from that, you will not need to supply a photograph.

[shovelheadrob]

You should exchange your licence for a current photo card type, I would take a good clear colour copy of the old one, the DVLA do make mistakes & they do not like to admit to it, people have lost & gained entitlements, it doesn't happen often but can be very inconvenient & costly if it happens.

[Steve Campbell]

Just checked my licence and it's same as one above (I've only ever taken the car test...in 1984)

[sunbeam alpine]

Pica-Pica said:

macushla said:

Given that you need an updated U.K. licence wouldn’t it be best to get it sorted now, rather than wait and ask questions? If you need this for work, then why would you choose to keep an out of date licence? I know there’s some sort of kudos about having a ratty old piece of paper held together with sellotape, but not when your livelihood potentially depends on it.

I’d just get it sent in ASAP and you’ll get a nice new photo card licence with all the categories you need inside a couple of weeks. There will no doubt be a load of people claiming that DVLA took all of their categories away amd issues a pilots licence for long haul only instead, but I’d take them with a pinch of salt.

The cost of the photo card licence is bugger all at £20 for 10 years, probably less than you lose in loose change a year, when you consider it’s 1/2p a day.

Indeed.
Also if you have a current passport, your facial photograph will transferred across from that, you will not need to supply a photograph.

When I first came here (more than 20 years ago) it was handy having a foreign licence as the police then had forms to fill in for traffic offences, and the format of the UK licence didn't fit the format on the form. This saved me quite a lot in the early years - I just got sent on my way with a bking! The police ditched these forms several years back so this advantage was gone.

I enquired about swapping to a Belgian licence about 5 years ago, which was when I first came across the problem that they don't know what to do about the old classes (or rather how to reconcile them to the new classes), so would just issue a standard car licence. For the majority of people this probably isn't a problem anyway. As I needed the ability to tow heavy trailers (and as Belgium didn't require me to swap as the UK does), it was simpler to just retain my UK licence. I see that I didn't make this clear in my first post.

The Brexit situation means that UK driving licences will no longer be valid in the EU once GB leaves. I've read in threads on NP&E that it will be possible to obtain an international driving permit from the Post Office. The letter I received states that up to March 29 I can exchange a UK driving licence for a Belgian one, thereafter I would have to take a driving test for a car licence, then a separate test for towing a trailer.

It seems I still have time to get a new-style UK licence (my UK address on the licence is unchanged so I can just get a replacement sent). I will then swap that for a Belgian one.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Wednesday 23 January 15:57

[macushla]

sunbeam alpine said:

When I first came here (more than 20 years ago) it was handy having a foreign licence as the police then had forms to fill in for traffic offences, and the format of the UK licence didn't fit the format on the form. This saved me quite a lot in the early years - I just got sent on my way with a bking! The police ditched these forms several years back so this advantage was gone.

I enquired about swapping to a Belgian licence about 5 years ago, which was when I first came across the problem that they don't know what to do about the old classes (or rather how to reconcile them to the new classes), so would just issue a standard car licence. For the majority of people this probably isn't a problem anyway. As I needed the ability to tow heavy trailers (and as Belgium didn't require me to swap as the UK does), it was simpler to just retain my UK licence. I see that I didn't make this clear in my first post.

The Brexit situation means that UK driving licences will no longer be valid in the EU once GB leaves. I've read in threads on NP&E that it will be possible to obtain an international driving permit from the Post Office. The letter I received states that up to March 29 I can exchange a UK driving licence for a Belgian one, thereafter I would have to take a driving test for a car licence, then a separate test for towing a trailer.

It seems I still have time to get a new-style UK licence (my UK address on the licence is unchanged so I can just get a replacement sent). I will then swap that for a Belgian one.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Wednesday 23 January 15:57

You could’ve just updated your U.K. licence 5 years ago when the format advantage disappeared based on what you’ve said. Just get the form sent in and be done with it. New U.K. licence and then decide whether to go down the international licence or Belgian licence based on which rules actually apply, rather than what the raving Brexiteers claim in NP&are

[Ardennes92]

macushla said:

sunbeam alpine said:

When I first came here (more than 20 years ago) it was handy having a foreign licence as the police then had forms to fill in for traffic offences, and the format of the UK licence didn't fit the format on the form. This saved me quite a lot in the early years - I just got sent on my way with a bking! The police ditched these forms several years back so this advantage was gone.

I enquired about swapping to a Belgian licence about 5 years ago, which was when I first came across the problem that they don't know what to do about the old classes (or rather how to reconcile them to the new classes), so would just issue a standard car licence. For the majority of people this probably isn't a problem anyway. As I needed the ability to tow heavy trailers (and as Belgium didn't require me to swap as the UK does), it was simpler to just retain my UK licence. I see that I didn't make this clear in my first post.

The Brexit situation means that UK driving licences will no longer be valid in the EU once GB leaves. I've read in threads on NP&E that it will be possible to obtain an international driving permit from the Post Office. The letter I received states that up to March 29 I can exchange a UK driving licence for a Belgian one, thereafter I would have to take a driving test for a car licence, then a separate test for towing a trailer.

It seems I still have time to get a new-style UK licence (my UK address on the licence is unchanged so I can just get a replacement sent). I will then swap that for a Belgian one.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Wednesday 23 January 15:57

You could’ve just updated your U.K. licence 5 years ago when the format advantage disappeared based on what you’ve said. Just get the form sent in and be done with it. New U.K. licence and then decide whether to go down the international licence or Belgian licence based on which rules actually apply, rather than what the raving Brexiteers claim in NP&are

The old paper licence is valid until you are 70 with no extra cost until you have to update it due to change of address rather than have to pay the government thieves every 10 years for a “new” style

[konark]

It's not certain that we're leaving the EU on the 29th of March, they'll probably kick the can a bit further down the road.

[ianwayne]

UK driving licences will be perfectly legal in all EU countries, and other countries round the world, as they are now, if visiting as a tourist or hiring a car.

If you live and work in Belgium, you should have exchanged it for a Belgian licence years ago, it just suited you not to. You can't have your cake and eat it!!

[sunbeam alpine]

ianwayne said:

UK driving licences will be perfectly legal in all EU countries, and other countries round the world, as they are now, if visiting as a tourist or hiring a car.

If you live and work in Belgium, you should have exchanged it for a Belgian licence years ago, it just suited you not to. You can't have your cake and eat it!!

As I posted a couple of times, unlike the UK, Belgium does not require EU nationals to exchange their home country's licence for a Belgian one. In addition - also previously posted - they don't seem to be able to reconcile the old UK system with the newer EU system.

I have compared the licence image kindly posted by Steve57 with those of younger colleagues over here, and they are the same, so I shall first apply for a new-style UK licence, then swap it for a Belgian one.

If this is the worst consequence of Brexit I have to face, I won't complain!

ETA: The letter I have seen, suggests that post-Brexit, a UK licence alone will not be sufficient to drive in Belgium...

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Wednesday 23 January 18:53

Edited by sunbeam alpine on Wednesday 23 January 18:53