Will not signed

[paulwd]

As the title suggests . My brother died at the weekend and I have found his will ( which he made at the same time as myself and my wife) The problem being he had not signed it . So I assume in the eyes of the law it is no more than a piece of paper. He was my full brother, there are no other siblings, our parents are deceased, he wasn't and never had been married or been in a civil partnership and has no children.
His will that was written by a will writing service( I assume the legal wording is correct) and states that his sole beneficiaries were to be my 2 children (now Adults)
I f I understand the laws of inheritance I would be the sole beneficiary, however I want my children to inherit his estate directly.
Thats the back story my question is does anybody have any experience of this and is it possible for the courts to implement his desires without a signed copy of the will.

[anonymous-user]

paulwd said:

As the title suggests . My brother died at the weekend and I have found his will ( which he made at the same time as myself and my wife) The problem being he had not signed it . So I assume in the eyes of the law it is no more than a piece of paper. He was my full brother, there are no other siblings, our parents are deceased, he wasn't and never had been married or been in a civil partnership and has no children.
His will that was written by a will writing service( I assume the legal wording is correct) and states that his sole beneficiaries were to be my 2 children (now Adults)
I f I understand the laws of inheritance I would be the sole beneficiary, however I want my children to inherit his estate directly.
Thats the back story my question is does anybody have any experience of this and is it possible for the courts to implement his desires without a signed copy of the will.

Sorry for your loss. Can't imagine losing a sibling is easy.

If you want to do what you're suggesting, you need a solicitor and you need to tell the solicitor to drat a Deed of Family Arrangement (google it; the solicitor will know what it is) to effect the dispositions that you want.

Alternatively, what's your health like? There's no reason why you couldn't inherit and then gift everything to your children immediately. Survive 7 years and there's no inheritance tax (assuming your and your brother's estate, combined, exceeds the IHT threshold - again, best to take some proper advice).

IAAL but IANYL.

[paulwd]

Thanks for the advice, would rather avoid it coming to me IHT and stuff. as for health he was alright last monday. So 7 years can never be guaranteed. and I want them to have it as he wished. Sounds like a solicitor for me then.

[thepeoplespal]

Not a lawyer, so that should be your 1st port of call.

If there had been a will a "deed of variation" would allow you to do what you are thinking. How it works with intestacy I don't know.

[NDA]

thepeoplespal said:

Not a lawyer, so that should be your 1st port of call.

If there had been a will a "deed of variation" would allow you to do what you are thinking. How it works with intestacy I don't know.

I was going to suggest asking for a deed of variation in the hope there might have been a previous will.... also not a lawyer.

Very sorry to hear about your brother. Awful news for you and your family.

[Beggarall]

I agree with advice above - a lawyer or someone qualified to discuss inheritance issues would be sensible. As a thought, have you considered approaching the company who prepared the Will - it maybe they have a copy and although you are only supposed to have one signed version, he may have given it to them? My condolences to you and your family.

[ColinM50]

When my mum died, we found her will hadn't been signed. Uncle who was executor pointed this out to me and handed me the will and a pen. Found a copy of mum's signature and all of a sudden realised mum's will had been signed after all..

[thepeoplespal]

It's the two witnesses that is the issue.

[richs2891]

thepeoplespal said:

It's the two witnesses that is the issue.

Does the issues of the two witnesses only become an issue - if the will is contested ?

[konark]

Are you sure the will-writing company don't have the signed copy in safekeeping?

Have any witnesses signed it?

Have a word with a solicitor to see if it's possible to do a deed of variation on intestacy rules.

[paulwd]

The will had not been witnessed and the will writing company do not keep a signed copy, so it would seem a deed of variation is the best way forward. Thank you all.

[Rude-boy]

paulwd said:

The will had not been witnessed and the will writing company do not keep a signed copy, so it would seem a deed of variation is the best way forward. Thank you all.

OP - you appear to be doing the right thing here, and certainly make sure you keep it legal, don't be tempted by some suggestions that could lead to a very difficult time for you all that are utterly unnecessary.

One thing to consider is the age of your children as there will need to be a trust if they are under 18, and if they are between 18 and 25 you might consider if they are mature enough to have direct unfettered access to what might be a significant sum of money.

Put it this way - I know 18 yearolds that if they were given £125k would buy a house with it and 23 yearolds who would spunk it in 2 years without a thought...

100% make sure that you take proper insured legal advice now (as in asap) and make your plans from there.

[Jasandjules]

paulwd said:

As the title suggests . My brother died at the weekend and I have found his will ( which he made at the same time as myself and my wife) The problem being he had not signed it .

Can you be certain there is not a copy (signed and witnessed) held by either the will writing company or any other solicitor?

[tinnitusjosh]

paulwd said:

The will had not been witnessed and the will writing company do not keep a signed copy, so it would seem a deed of variation is the best way forward. Thank you all.

Deed of Variation probably not the best way forward as if there is no existing will, there is nothing to vary.

[Elliot2000]

ColinM50 said:

When my mum died, we found her will hadn't been signed. Uncle who was executor pointed this out to me and handed me the will and a pen. Found a copy of mum's signature and all of a sudden realised mum's will had been signed after all..

I’m not sure putting this post on a public forum is the best thing to do 🤔

[Steve Campbell]

Jasandjules said:

Can you be certain there is not a copy (signed and witnessed) held by either the will writing company or any other solicitor?

I'd explore this first. Did he have a solicitor (maybe a local firm who did house move or similar ?). Worth double checking first.

[samsock]

I'm just curious. Say you sign the will yourself and get caught, what is the worst case scenario, given you are next of kin. Jail? Fine?

Just curious. I'm not advocating...

[Rude-boy]

samsock said:

I'm just curious. Say you sign the will yourself and get caught, what is the worst case scenario, given you are next of kin. Jail? Fine?

Just curious. I'm not advocating...

Not anywhere near my field but let's start with fraud and PCoJ, before we consider any specific crimes relating to this.

[samsock]

Rude-boy said:

Not anywhere near my field but let's start with fraud and PCoJ, before we consider any specific crimes relating to this.

So are we talking jail do you think? What would happen to the money?

[anonymous-user]

samsock said:

I'm just curious. Say you sign the will yourself and get caught, what is the worst case scenario, given you are next of kin. Jail? Fine?

Just curious. I'm not advocating...

A friend of mine faked the signature on her mother's will. She did proper jail time. I don't know the full details (if she forged the will too or not) but I do know she spent a while inside. Very posh and lovely young lady. Stories from a womans' prison are "interesting"