The Game Changers Documentary

[Halb]

RB Will said:

Ok I'll accept he was in one of the big leagues but without analysing every event he took part in did he do anything special?
So yes technically he is competing with the best in the world by being in the same competition but he isn't really competing with them if you see what I mean.
Since I know you love me using myself as an example. I've competed in the British championship in my chosen sport but never troubled the top guys. I wouldn't call myself National standard just because I took part in the same competition.
I have friends from my sport who similar to Patrik have been successful at National level with podiums more often than not but when they have gone on to European level have dropped back to 30th-50th well off the leaders. So I wouldn't call them world class either even though they have been competing directly with the best in Europe and the world.
Surely someone capable of multiple world records would have placed higher? Are his world records ones that other people have attempted? Are they really specific?
Just had a look to answer my own questions there and it seems the answer is that his yoke record (not bothered checking others) was done outside of competition and to different parameters than you would do in competition so nobody else has bothered to try and break it. He even admits himself that any of the top guys would smash his records if they tried. Brian Shaw has said he doesn't think there would be any problem breaking them. I know saying and actually doing are different though.
Patrik himself disagrees with you that his record was broken. He says it still stands as nobody has done the exact same setup of event, weight and distance etc. Guys have gone way heavier for less distance or further with similar weight.
Funny that you say he isn't a powerlifter (I know he competed in strongman not powerlifting) but it seems that may be one of his strengths. Brian Shaw has just called him out to compete with Brian in any event he likes and Patrik chose the squat, which is a powerlifting event?

Thank you for the complete and comprehensive response, it was not what I was expecting. PH surprises.
Did he do anything special? Not that I am aware of. He's just one of those blokes that turns up, or turned up to make up the numbers. I watched WSM most years (I think...the other stuff, is either on Eurosport or I simply forget, strongman splinted in the early 00s and it became all too political...as a side track, that's why some think Marius dominated, because others were in the IFSA). I watched his yoke and then because of this I watched the record be beaten. In the video I linked, he admitted he no longer holds it. It was broken at the AhNold Classic some years later. I understand that you mean he competed with the top tier...but not really 'competed'. I feel mean and disrespectful referring to the journeymen as place holders, but when I watch strongmen, I know who won't be winning, or coming in top 5. Patrik himself was a 105er who tried to bump up to over 105. Strongman is very specific with events, someone who can win one event (and never be beaten) might not place in top ten, Gregor Edmunds was nigh on unbeatable one on one in the atlas stones, but he never troubled the top blokes. As an opposite, it was thought Mariius won a lot because he was mediocre at everything with no weaknesses. He wasn't the 'best', he was simply not awful at anything, so in that sense strongman is not like many other sports...save maybe the decathlon, it is a series of very different events. The brits were denied a champ for a loooong time because even though Hollands was top tier at pulls, Laurence was top tier at deadlifts, none of them had pushing power, Eddie Hall was a puller and a pusher and managed to squeak past Thor.
Squat variants and deadlift variants occur in strongman, I was using the competition PL as a standard. It's rare for a PL to switch to strongman, but if one does it young enough and gets good at strongman, that work he out into the very specific sport of PL can help them dip in and out. Most top tier don't crossover, it's too hard, but outliers do. Eddie did, but then he could only do it for one win, it took too much and he wanted a life outside the sport. Patrik is injured now, not sure when/where this challenge will take place.
I think the politics resolved itself in the mid tweenies, so the top blokes compete across the board, but because there's a fair few, it comes down to cash and travel and opportunity etc.
Ahh the squat...I first became aware of Patrick watching rev events years ago. THere is a decent challenge where a powerlifter, a strongman (Pat), a bodybuilder and a weightlifter all compete at the squat (as it's a cross discipline though executed differently by all of them, but to an agreed standard in this particular event). So strongmen tend not to have the record in PL events (outliers excepted, strength sports are fluid and have some crossover) .unless there's specific rules on execution. I think Patrick came third.


another edit, I'll just add, a strongman may be good at deadlift, good at squat, good at both or not that good at either. It's all bodyshape and levers.

Edited by Halb on Wednesday 27th November 18:18

[Halb]

this is the video, with the 5 minute squat challenge, I did it myself back then. Got around 60 I think at 105.
Powerlifter VS Strongman VS Bodybuilder VS Weightlifter - EPIC Squat Battle!
STRENGTH WARS
https://youtu.be/g0R68g184ag

[DaveGrohl]

gregs656 said:

I am shocked at the effect the meat industry is having on the planet.

You honestly think that you couldn't level the exact same criticism at the way vegan foods are grown?

[RB Will]

DaveGrohl said:

gregs656 said:

I am shocked at the effect the meat industry is having on the planet.

You honestly think that you couldn't level the exact same criticism at the way vegan foods are grown?

if you watch / read the Chris Kresser stuff the meat industry apparently isnt half as bad as its made out to be.

eg most of the food cows etc eat is either grass on land that is unsuitable for growing crops or the byproducts of crops grown for human consumption.

Emissions from cattle are misrepresented by comparing the CO2 from everything involved in growing cows and their burps compared to just tailpipe emissions on cars etc. If you compare all the CO2 produced in making, transporting cars, fuel, parts etc etc for a fair comparison then the transport industry is many times worse.

When they talk about how much water goes into one burger / lb of beef etc they include all the rainfall that fell on the field rather than what the cow actually consumes and dont take into account any of it going back into the system. The actual amount of water used up by a cow is apparently less than required to grow the equivalent weight of things like avocados and almonds.

[ChocolateFrog]

I laughed out loud when they claimed you could improve your bench press 19% with a glass of beetroot juice.

I knew from that point my suspicions were correct and it was complete bks.

[gregs656]

DaveGrohl said:

gregs656 said:

I am shocked at the effect the meat industry is having on the planet.

You honestly think that you couldn't level the exact same criticism at the way vegan foods are grown?

You can’t, no.

Just the effect the beef industry is having on the Amazon should be enough for anyone to advocate a drop in beef consumption.

It’s mostly beef that is the problem really.

Check it out, there is plenty of data.

[mikiec]

gregs656 said:

You can’t, no.

Just the effect the beef industry is having on the Amazon should be enough for anyone to advocate a drop in beef consumption.

It’s mostly beef that is the problem really.

Check it out, there is plenty of data.

Or you could just make sure your beef is locally grown and free ranging. It’s not the cow it’s the how

[grumbledoak]

gregs656 said:

You can’t, no.

Just the effect the beef industry is having on the Amazon should be enough for anyone to advocate a drop in beef consumption.

It’s mostly beef that is the problem really.

Check it out, there is plenty of data.

Or, soy. That well known ruminant.
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/victories/amazon-ra...

[LordGrover]

gregs656 said:

You can’t, no.

Just the effect the beef industry is having on the Amazon should be enough for anyone to advocate a drop in beef consumption.

It’s mostly beef that is the problem really.

Check it out, there is plenty of data misinformation and vegan propaganda.

FTFY

[Halb]

Back to the bad old days with the new monkeys in charge in brazil
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/2...
Direct human causes of deforestation include logging, agriculture, cattle ranching, mining, oil extraction and dam-building.
https://www.rainforestconcern.org/forest-facts/why...
https://rainforests.abay.com/amazon/amazon_des...
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/glo...
https://www.npr.org/2012/09/06/160171565/guess-who...
https://www.rainforestconcern.org/forest-facts/why...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the...
IN 2004 and 2009 reports said that cattle was the largest, and logging the second largest motivator, though agriculture and mining and housing are also guilty.

[LordGrover]

The real point is, it's not the cattle, it's the method of farming that's at fault.
Beef and dairy cattle can be farmed sustainably and become net carbon sinks when done properly. The majority of cattle and sheep farming in the UK and Europe is already very good (though I recently learned from here that there are a few grain finishing feedlots here now).
See Polyface Farms as an example of how it can be done 'right' in the US.

[grumbledoak]

Those US feedlots are not something we should be copying.

It's only done because grain is so cheap - US government subsidies for arable crops are the root cause there. Driving them to produce far more than we can eat, then looking for things to do with it once it's free.

[Kenny Powers]

For balance, a comprehensive 'debunking' film addressing the main points of The Game Changers. Obviously people are encouraged to draw their own conclusions. I'm making no claims on either side;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb71DaGplAo&fe...

[gregs656]

mikiec said:

Or you could just make sure your beef is locally grown and free ranging. It’s not the cow it’s the how

Yes that would be a start. Quite difficult unless you’re preparing it your self - restaurants etc gets a bit murky.

grumbledoak said:

Or, soy. That well known ruminant.
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/victories/amazon-ra...

Grown in large quantities to feed cattle.

LordGrover said:

FTFY

There is lots of good quality information out there. What is your estimate of how much of the rainforest in Brazil us been cleared for cattle?

[RB Will]

gregs656 said:

grumbledoak said:

Or, soy. That well known ruminant.
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/victories/amazon-ra...

Grown in large quantities to feed cattle.

I was under the impression it was grown in large quantities for human use of the soy bean oil. The leftovers after the oil has been extracted are then made into cattle feed making more economic and environmental sense as otherwise the waste products would still be there but just rot and release more junk that the cows helpfully turn into meat and milk

[grumbledoak]

RB Will said:

I was under the impression it was grown in large quantities for human use of the soy bean oil. The leftovers after the oil has been extracted are then made into cattle feed making more economic and environmental sense as otherwise the waste products would still be there but just rot and release more junk that the cows helpfully turn into meat and milk

This.

Feeding crap to humans if they'll eat it, then feeding the waste products to cattle.

[LordGrover]

gregs656 said:

There is lots of good quality information out there. What is your estimate of how much of the rainforest in Brazil us been cleared for cattle?

Irrelevant.
See my post above. It's the industrial farming method that's at fault, not cattle per se.

I don't condone deforestation for any reason, including cattle, soy, wheat, whatever.

[gregs656]

LordGrover said:

Irrelevant.
See my post above. It's the industrial farming method that's at fault, not cattle per se.

I don't condone deforestation for any reason, including cattle, soy, wheat, whatever.

Not irrelevant at all.

Just the deforestation from cattle farming should be enough for most people to seriously consider how much beef they are consuming.

I any case, there is plenty of evidence that reducing meat consumption is good for the planet. If The Game Changers makes more people consider it then that's great.

Edited by gregs656 on Thursday 28th November 18:09

[grumbledoak]

gregs656 said:

...

I any case, there is plenty of evidence that reducing meat consumption is good for the planet. If ...

No, there isn't.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2019/11/27/mea...

[mikiec]

gregs656 said:

mikiec said:

Or you could just make sure your beef is locally grown and free ranging. It’s not the cow it’s the how

Yes that would be a start. Quite difficult unless you’re preparing it your self - restaurants etc gets a bit murky.

Do you eat out more than you eat at home? Where restaurants source all their ingredients should be a concern, imported produce whether meat of veggies are going to have a higher environmental impact then locally sourced.