White House Farm murders - ITV series
Discussion
youngsyr said:
Welshbeef said:
Let’s look at reality.
I’d wager those poor boys were killed first possibly with only the Gran somewhere upstairs
Gran gets it next
Grandad rushes upstairs takes 4 shots falls (killer assumes dead)
Killer goes downstairs
Grandad come to and tries to get downstairs adrenaline pumping catches the killer and have a fight/wrestle the gun away fails and takes 4 more killing him.
So either the mum did it murder suicide if so she then had time to make any moves in the house and kill herself per the 2018 documentary which proves you can pull the trigger if that size and in that gun (another poster has linked a similar video)
Or it’s someone else did the killer use the phone to KO the sister after the boys were killed then killer came back to kill her.
At what point does the killer reload a single magazine with 10 bullets, twice over?I’d wager those poor boys were killed first possibly with only the Gran somewhere upstairs
Gran gets it next
Grandad rushes upstairs takes 4 shots falls (killer assumes dead)
Killer goes downstairs
Grandad come to and tries to get downstairs adrenaline pumping catches the killer and have a fight/wrestle the gun away fails and takes 4 more killing him.
So either the mum did it murder suicide if so she then had time to make any moves in the house and kill herself per the 2018 documentary which proves you can pull the trigger if that size and in that gun (another poster has linked a similar video)
Or it’s someone else did the killer use the phone to KO the sister after the boys were killed then killer came back to kill her.
youngsyr said:
Welshbeef said:
Why wouldn’t the killer have been carrying plenty of ammo?
You're missing the point: it takes time to load 10 rounds into a magazine twice.We’re the injuries enough to give time for reloading? Was the Grandad actually in the house when it started or out in the outbuilding tending to his livestock?
Was there any formal time of death verified for all victims or was the range 9pm up to 3/4am when pilidd cc’de found them?
Welshbeef said:
How many builders did each victim have?
We’re the injuries enough to give time for reloading? Was the Grandad actually in the house when it started or out in the outbuilding tending to his livestock?
Was there any formal time of death verified for all victims or was the range 9pm up to 3/4am when pilidd cc’de found them?
I wish you would take the time to check your posts before hitting Submit. It is not too difficult.We’re the injuries enough to give time for reloading? Was the Grandad actually in the house when it started or out in the outbuilding tending to his livestock?
Was there any formal time of death verified for all victims or was the range 9pm up to 3/4am when pilidd cc’de found them?
thebraketester said:
It was a complete cluster f
k of an investigation let’s face it.
Nice Volvo 240 estate in the 3rd episode though :-)
At last - this is PH after all. What about the Mk1 GTE? Tasty as **ck. k of an investigation let’s face it. Nice Volvo 240 estate in the 3rd episode though :-)
Mark Addy is a class act. Whether he is like the real DS isn’t important, he’s carrying this imho.
The Dad of the twins is in for a nasty surprise. Not sure how you’d deal with this. Quite incredible.
The Don of Croy said:
At last - this is PH after all. What about the Mk1 GTE? Tasty as **ck.
Mark Addy is a class act. Whether he is like the real DS isn’t important, he’s carrying this imho.
The Dad of the twins is in for a nasty surprise. Not sure how you’d deal with this. Quite incredible.
Agreed Mk1 GTE is lovely - wonder if it’s a PH owned car?Mark Addy is a class act. Whether he is like the real DS isn’t important, he’s carrying this imho.
The Dad of the twins is in for a nasty surprise. Not sure how you’d deal with this. Quite incredible.
Digger said:
Welshbeef said:
How many builders did each victim have?
We’re the injuries enough to give time for reloading? Was the Grandad actually in the house when it started or out in the outbuilding tending to his livestock?
Was there any formal time of death verified for all victims or was the range 9pm up to 3/4am when pilidd cc’de found them?
I wish you would take the time to check your posts before hitting Submit. It is not too difficult.We’re the injuries enough to give time for reloading? Was the Grandad actually in the house when it started or out in the outbuilding tending to his livestock?
Was there any formal time of death verified for all victims or was the range 9pm up to 3/4am when pilidd cc’de found them?
He's worried about the game tomorrow against Italy.
He knows they are likely to lose.
Just stated watching on catch up to avoid the interminable adverts. I know there’s poetic licence, but were the coppers really so incompetent? I thought Essex was highly regarded as a regional force, so are they being short changed by this drama, which I think is excellent by the way. Nice period cars, decent acting and well produced.
Blue62 said:
Just stated watching on catch up to avoid the interminable adverts. I know there’s poetic licence, but were the coppers really so incompetent? I thought Essex was highly regarded as a regional force, so are they being short changed by this drama, which I think is excellent by the way. Nice period cars, decent acting and well produced.
Agree. It does say in the opening credits that 'some scenes have been invented for dramatic purposes'. I think this is SOP for true life stories adapted for film or TV. It is primarily entertainment after all.
Blue62 said:
Just stated watching on catch up to avoid the interminable adverts. I know there’s poetic licence, but were the coppers really so incompetent? I thought Essex was highly regarded as a regional force, so are they being short changed by this drama, which I think is excellent by the way. Nice period cars, decent acting and well produced.
Essex, of that period, were a mixed ability force. Some of their specialities were class of the field. For instance, firearms. We went to them to learn a thing or two. Their training department was well regarded and I'm told their traffic unit was as good as Kent's, but without the arrogance. A big improvement. However, their CID was much the same as any other at the time. There was little supervision and checking, so much depended on the senior investigating officer. Get a good one, and you had a good enquiry.
A team used to be a reflection of the SIO, but, at least to an extent, it changed in the late 80s, some suggest generated by this case. Many forces must have felt, there but for the grace of the Lodge goes us.
The two enquiries into the Russell Bishop murders and attempt were poles apart, and not only in results.
There's oversight now, and with the technical aids, such as HOLMES, there's a sort of safety net.
With regards the silencer, in the normal event of a mass murder, a search team would have been sent in once the initial scene investigation was over. There's little that they miss.
The scene was not preserved. That was appalling. Even if it was murder/suicide, an enquiry needs to be run properly. The coroner was upset. Also, I remember scenes of crimes ten years before this having a PC stuck on the door to log anyone coming in and to stop them until the OIC of the scene gave permission to enter.
There are some negatives to the current system, but they are minor.
youngsyr said:
I wonder if there's not a way to discover the truth long after the fact - presumably it takes a very "unique" individual to execute an entire family of relatives, including two young boys, in cold blood, over a reasonably prolonged period (the killer reloaded at least twice).
I would hope there would be psychological markers that would indicate whether Bamber was capable of such a heinous act.
Similarly, with his sister. Just because she was schizophrenic, it doesn't mean she was necessarily prone to such acts.
I understand that Bamber is willing to undertake a lie detector test, so it would seem he truly believes himself innocent. Again, not an indication of innocence or otherwise in itself, but certainly an indication of openness to testing.
My brother was at school with Bamber. All his school mates agree that he was more than capable of itI would hope there would be psychological markers that would indicate whether Bamber was capable of such a heinous act.
Similarly, with his sister. Just because she was schizophrenic, it doesn't mean she was necessarily prone to such acts.
I understand that Bamber is willing to undertake a lie detector test, so it would seem he truly believes himself innocent. Again, not an indication of innocence or otherwise in itself, but certainly an indication of openness to testing.
Welshbeef said:
Didn’t this happen during the era build up to the Rettondon murders and the huge drug smuggling in by light aircraft landing on farmers fields.
Any possibility the drugs he and sister were involved in got way out of control and this might have been the end result?
Rettendon was 1995. This was mid eighties.Any possibility the drugs he and sister were involved in got way out of control and this might have been the end result?
Bernard Mahoney will probably know someone who knows something!
youngsyr said:
Another line of thought that I find compelling is that the boys were executed in cold blood, which would presumably indicate that they hadn't heard anything and woken up prior to their deaths (small mercy).
That in turn would indicate that the silencer was used, at least for some of the shots. The fact that it wasn't on the rifle, or even on the same floor of the house as the sister's body, would suggest to me that it was moved after the final shooting.
If that is the case, Bamber did it.
Or, rather, someone other than his sister. Such as, for example, the cousin who knew about the window and who stood to inherit the farm with the family dead and Bamber out of the way ...That in turn would indicate that the silencer was used, at least for some of the shots. The fact that it wasn't on the rifle, or even on the same floor of the house as the sister's body, would suggest to me that it was moved after the final shooting.
If that is the case, Bamber did it.
FourWheelDrift said:
So who did the police see inside the house and were trying to talk to via a megaphone for two hours before Jeremy Bamber arrived?
Police logs state "Firearms teams in conversation with person in farmhouse" while it's proven he was outside.
I still say it's the sister.
Bamber was outside WITH the police offficees when they saw movements inside the house Police logs state "Firearms teams in conversation with person in farmhouse" while it's proven he was outside.
I still say it's the sister.
Welshbeef said:
FourWheelDrift said:
So who did the police see inside the house and were trying to talk to via a megaphone for two hours before Jeremy Bamber arrived?
Police logs state "Firearms teams in conversation with person in farmhouse" while it's proven he was outside.
I still say it's the sister.
Bamber was outside WITH the police offficees when they saw movements inside the house Police logs state "Firearms teams in conversation with person in farmhouse" while it's proven he was outside.
I still say it's the sister.
Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff