Heads up - Steve McQueen: Le Mans and the Man

[rider73]

Watchman said:

RichB said:

I watched this and a couple of things struck me: I didn't realise McQueen was such a prima donna and his son did not come over well.

The accident with the Swedish acress and the way the dealt with the personal assistant guy left a sour taste.

agreed.

[ewand]

Eric Mc said:

Randy Winkman said:

I can never decide whether I admire Lauda for his toughness in coming back so quickly or just think he's nuts. Perhaps the trauma had a big effect on his decision making?

In the final race they mentioned 24 seconds for Hunt's wheel change. Anyone know anything about 1970s wheel changes in F1? My understanding is that it wasn't really a routine event in a race but clearly was done as quickly as possible and was important on this event.

How many people for each wheel? What equipment? Was 24 seconds typical?

Changing wheels/tyres had fallen out of favour in F1 from about 1958 to 1982. It was only the advent of turbo-charging (i.e. massive horse power) and super soft tyres that the notion of changing wheels as part of race strategy became a "thing".

Old style wheel changes (pre mid 1950s going right back to the first GP in 1906) were there because the races were longer (300 miles and longer) and the tyres were ste and could not last the distance).

if you haven't seen it before, there's an excellent 45 min documentary on the history of the pit stop in F1. It seems that before Gordon Murray, nobody had thought of using a stop for competitive advantage... seems obvious now (when the rules allow it) but prior to that, cars coming into the pits was an uncommon occurrence and not something the teams planned for particularly.

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/films/the-history-o...

[Kinkell]

Smollet said:

Kinkell said:

The actual "Le Mans" film never quite clicked with me. Time to give it another go.
We were at the Silverstone WEC 2014 when the dapper Derek Bell emerged from the building, that's me on the left.

I can go one further
I have lost 4 stone since that horror was taken
Excellent documentary

[Kinkell]

Smollet said:

Kinkell said:

The actual "Le Mans" film never quite clicked with me. Time to give it another go.
We were at the Silverstone WEC 2014 when the dapper Derek Bell emerged from the building, that's me on the left.

I can go one further
I have lost 4 stone since that horror was taken
Excellent documentary

Good work, but myself was in the documentary with Steve and his vanity project.

[giveitfish]

rider73 said:

agreed.

I think Steve McQueen is the person the phrase “never meet your heroes” was invented for.

That said, “Le Mans” is amazing and I watch it at least once a year. I’ve never seen anything which conveys even a fraction of the atmosphere and spectacle of racing like it does.

[Steamer]

rider73 said:

Watchman said:

RichB said:

I watched this and a couple of things struck me: I didn't realise McQueen was such a prima donna and his son did not come over well.

The accident with the Swedish acress and the way the dealt with the personal assistant guy left a sour taste.

agreed.

Yes - he probably was living in a quite a surreal bubble.. or just the Playboy lifestyle to put in another way. That probably echos through his son too..

..however (and I hope this isnt a spoiler) the David Piper letter put a slightly different angle on that.

Steve certainly dodged a few bullets along the way (no pun intended)

[RichB]

Steamer said:

Yes - he probably was living in a quite a surreal bubble.. or just the Playboy lifestyle to put in another way. That probably echos through his son too..

..however (and I hope this isnt a spoiler) the David Piper letter put a slightly different angle on that.

Steve certainly dodged a few bullets along the way (no pun intended)

Indeed and it showed the production company up as greedy sts not fulfilling McQueen's request

[Kinkell]

McQeen was an alpha + male and would be an amazing friend to his inner circle and a proper to those who crossed him. Le Mans was his baby and he couldn't quite cut it and it changed his life forever. He was pragmatic enough to save his wealth and allow the studio to finish the film on their terms. A flawed genius a kin to Senna and Hunt who were lost to us before their time.

[Long Drax]

Always loved James Garner. Glad to hear he got under SM's skin.

[rider73]

RichB said:

Steamer said:

Yes - he probably was living in a quite a surreal bubble.. or just the Playboy lifestyle to put in another way. That probably echos through his son too..

..however (and I hope this isnt a spoiler) the David Piper letter put a slightly different angle on that.

Steve certainly dodged a few bullets along the way (no pun intended)

Indeed and it showed the production company up as greedy sts not fulfilling McQueen's request

Was it McQueens place to send that letter though after the millions of overspend , getting the director and producer fired, and lateness of the entire production was pretty much firmly at his door - and, lets face it , he was a multi millionair.....i'm sure he could have spared a few coffers for the driver / drivers , as the film constantly pushed how in awe he was of them and how he thought them of friends...

Imagine the Studios POV - a star we almost sacked costing us millions and throwing hissyfits over a movie we gave him bucket loads of money to make, then at the very end writes us a letter asking us to give money to a driver he employed in an accident for his movie....

hmmmm

[RichB]

rider73 said:

RichB said:

Steamer said:

Yes - he probably was living in a quite a surreal bubble.. or just the Playboy lifestyle to put in another way. That probably echos through his son too..

..however (and I hope this isnt a spoiler) the David Piper letter put a slightly different angle on that.

Steve certainly dodged a few bullets along the way (no pun intended)

Indeed and it showed the production company up as greedy sts not fulfilling McQueen's request

Was it McQueens place to send that letter though after the millions of overspend , getting the director and producer fired, and lateness of the entire production was pretty much firmly at his door - and, lets face it , he was a multi millionair.....i'm sure he could have spared a few coffers for the driver / drivers , as the film constantly pushed how in awe he was of them and how he thought them of friends...

Imagine the Studios POV - a star we almost sacked costing us millions and throwing hissyfits over a movie we gave him bucket loads of money to make, then at the very end writes us a letter asking us to give money to a driver he employed in an accident for his movie.... hmmmm

Fair point.

[Eric Mc]

ewand said:

if you haven't seen it before, there's an excellent 45 min documentary on the history of the pit stop in F1. It seems that before Gordon Murray, nobody had thought of using a stop for competitive advantage... seems obvious now (when the rules allow it) but prior to that, cars coming into the pits was an uncommon occurrence and not something the teams planned for particularly.

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/films/the-history-o...

Depends on the era.

Grand Prix racing dates back to 1906. In that early pre World War 1 era, the cars carried a stock of spare tyres and a riding mechanic to make the tyre changes. Changes would be made out on the road, whenever a puncture happened. Punctures were common because the cars were heavy, the tyres were crude and the roads unsurfaced.

In the 1920s, Grand Prix cars became single seaters (monoposto) so any tyre changes required a pit stop. The races were longer than they are today (over 300 miles) and were mostly run on public roads rather than circuits. Also, although better than pre WW1, tyres were still crude by modern standards needed changing as they wore down. Another factor was the advent of supercharging, which gave more BHP at the expense of fuel consumption. Consequently, fuel stops were required anyway so combined tyre and fuel stops were the norm in the pre World War 2 era.

When Grand Prix racing (subsequently rebranded Formula 1) resumed just after World War 2, the cars initially used were the ones that had been put away at the start of the war - so the same pre-war race strategies were needed. In the mid 1950s, a new Formula 1 set of rules was introduced which reduced the need for refueling but tyres were still an issue and did need changing during a race.

This started to change as the 50s drew to a close. The cars were getting lighter, especially the new breed of rear engined cars, races were getting shorter, engines were more fuel efficient and tyre technology got much better. By the early 1960s, fuel stops had faded out and tyre stops were no longer needed - unless due to accidental punctures.

That situation persisted into the early 1980s. With the advent of turbocharging (a variation on the old supercharging theme), fuel consumption became an issue again - especially at high levels of boost. Teams such as Ferrari and Brabham realised that it was best to run at poor fuel efficiency for maximum power, pop in mid race for a quick refueling and a tyre change, and go out again. Once the sums showed that an overall race time was quicker WITH a duel and tyre stop compared to not stopping, fuel and tyre stops became the norm again.

Since then, fuel stops have come and gone a few times, depending on the whims of the rule makers. Tyre stops are mandatory, not because they are really needed, but to spice up the show.

[Mark A S]

My Dad took me to see Le Mans when it came out, the nearest cinema he could find that played it was in Putney, we lived in Lee-on- Solent then!
I loved it, still do, it’s a fantastic cinematic piece of work about those wonderful cars in that period, needless to say, the 917 is still my favourite car of all time.
Oh, and the noise

P.S. My Dad was, and still is a big Fan of McQueen, he took my Mum to see Bullitt at the cinema in Portsmouth, he was in his 65 Mustang fastback as well. He tells me that after the film his car had a large crown around it in the car park, so he gave it some welly leaving, My Mum gave him a huge bollicking on the way home

[thegreenhell]

ewand said:

if you haven't seen it before, there's an excellent 45 min documentary on the history of the pit stop in F1. It seems that before Gordon Murray, nobody had thought of using a stop for competitive advantage... seems obvious now (when the rules allow it) but prior to that, cars coming into the pits was an uncommon occurrence and not something the teams planned for particularly.

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/films/the-history-o...

Fangio at the Nurburgring in 1957 was probably the earliest planned tactical fuel and tyre stop in the modern sense. Even though he could have run the race non-stop, and most of his rivals did just that, he started on half-tanks and pitted, believing that the time taken to refuel mid-race would be more than compensated by the extra speed potential of running lighter with fresher tyres.

[TEKNOPUG]

It appears that David Piper recovered both physically and financially judging by his garage

[Eric Mc]

thegreenhell said:

Fangio at the Nurburgring in 1957 was probably the earliest planned tactical fuel and tyre stop in the modern sense. Even though he could have run the race non-stop, and most of his rivals did just that, he started on half-tanks and pitted, believing that the time taken to refuel mid-race would be more than compensated by the extra speed potential of running lighter with fresher tyres.

In the 1958 Argentina GP, Stirling Moss fooled the opposition into THINKING he was making a tyre stop - but then didn't. He finished the race with the canvas of the tyres showing through.

[RichB]

TEKNOPUG said:

It appears that David Piper recovered both physically and financially judging by his garage

Astonishing the way he grew a new leg!

[Randy Winkman]

Smollet said:

Randy Winkman said:

In the final race they mentioned 24 seconds for Hunt's wheel change. Anyone know anything about 1970s wheel changes in F1? My understanding is that it wasn't really a routine event in a race but clearly was done as quickly as possible and was important on this event.

How many people for each wheel? What equipment? Was 24 seconds typical?

You obviously missed the part of the commentary where it was mentioned he had two flat tyres and made jacking the car up fairly difficult hence the 24 seconds it took to change the tyres.

Thanks. I did hear that but wasn't sure how much it affected the time. 24 secs seems ridiculous now but even when I first started seeing tyre changes become part of the race they could easily take the best part of 10 seconds. I just wondered how long they took when they were only done as a last resort.

[Randy Winkman]

Randy Winkman said:

Smollet said:

Randy Winkman said:

In the final race they mentioned 24 seconds for Hunt's wheel change. Anyone know anything about 1970s wheel changes in F1? My understanding is that it wasn't really a routine event in a race but clearly was done as quickly as possible and was important on this event.

How many people for each wheel? What equipment? Was 24 seconds typical?

You obviously missed the part of the commentary where it was mentioned he had two flat tyres and made jacking the car up fairly difficult hence the 24 seconds it took to change the tyres.

Thanks to you and other who have commented on tyre changes. I did hear that point but wasn't sure how much it affected the time. 24 secs seems ridiculous now but even when I first started seeing tyre changes become part of the race they could easily take the best part of 10 seconds. I just wondered how long they took when they were only done as a last resort.

[Watchman]

ewand said:

if you haven't seen it before, there's an excellent 45 min documentary on the history of the pit stop in F1. It seems that before Gordon Murray, nobody had thought of using a stop for competitive advantage... seems obvious now (when the rules allow it) but prior to that, cars coming into the pits was an uncommon occurrence and not something the teams planned for particularly.

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/films/the-history-o...

That really was excellent. I enjoyed that. Thanks for posting.