The Falcon and The Winter Soldier
Discussion
Disney is funny, they can show Thanos' purple decapitated head but won't even dare show a frame of the "terrorist".
Great up, makes up for the cringe show that was last week's episode.
Question, was John suped up when fighting the Ayo and the others? His comment about them not even being super soldiers made me think he had taken it and was surprised that despite the serum he still got his ass kicked.
Great up, makes up for the cringe show that was last week's episode.
Question, was John suped up when fighting the Ayo and the others? His comment about them not even being super soldiers made me think he had taken it and was surprised that despite the serum he still got his ass kicked.
DonBarracuda said:
Question, was John suped up when fighting the Ayo and the others? His comment about them not even being super soldiers made me think he had taken it and was surprised that despite the serum he still got his ass kicked.
No, I think that's what drove him to take it, realising he wasn't even able to stand up to unenhanced elite fighters.DonBarracuda said:
Disney is funny, they can show Thanos' purple decapitated head but won't even dare show a frame of the "terrorist".
Great up, makes up for the cringe show that was last week's episode.
My understanding of this scene was to show and focus on the rage and horror of John rather than showing the actual chest smash, especially his facial expressions and eyes.Great up, makes up for the cringe show that was last week's episode.
Having the blood on the shield lets you fill in the blanks and I don't think it would have had the same effect if the camera went back and forth between Cap and the Flagsmasher.
He wasn't decapitated btw, had his chest caved in.
What's worse is earlier in the episode, the guy talked about how much he idolised Captain America growing up and then he is murdered by him, albeit the next version of him.
The ending was done really well imho
Radec said:
DonBarracuda said:
Disney is funny, they can show Thanos' purple decapitated head but won't even dare show a frame of the "terrorist".
Great up, makes up for the cringe show that was last week's episode.
My understanding of this scene was to show and focus on the rage and horror of John rather than showing the actual chest smash, especially his facial expressions and eyes.Great up, makes up for the cringe show that was last week's episode.
Having the blood on the shield lets you fill in the blanks and I don't think it would have had the same effect if the camera went back and forth between Cap and the Flagsmasher.
He wasn't decapitated btw, had his chest caved in.
What's worse is earlier in the episode, the guy talked about how much he idolised Captain America growing up and then he is murdered by him, albeit the next version of him.
The ending was done really well imho
The episode was called “The world is watching”, and what they will see is Captain America using the symbol of American might to butcher a man in the street. I can’t see him being allowed to keep the title and shield after that.
However, the government won’t want to waste a super soldier who is very effective in combat. But better to keep him for black ops type missions.
This all looks to be shaping up to show the Young Avengers. The older black guy- the original super soldier has a grandson. I can see him getting the shield. He’s PATRIOT in the comics. Don’t see Falcon becoming Cap. He’s Foacon.
Walker will go bonkers now, the US will disavow him and he will return as Super Patriot or the Captain, I’m far or similar. Who is the Power Broker going to be? I’m hoping the Mandarin. He’s set to be the villain in the upcoming Shang Chi movie.
Overall I’m far preferring this to the smug and tedious WandaVision.
Walker will go bonkers now, the US will disavow him and he will return as Super Patriot or the Captain, I’m far or similar. Who is the Power Broker going to be? I’m hoping the Mandarin. He’s set to be the villain in the upcoming Shang Chi movie.
Overall I’m far preferring this to the smug and tedious WandaVision.
DonBarracuda said:
Disney is funny, they can show Thanos' purple decapitated head but won't even dare show a frame of the "terrorist".
Others have outlined well why this was done from a story point of view. It’ll also have been done because Falcon and Winter Solider airs on TV and is not subject to certification, whereas Endgame was shot to fit clearly in the bounds of a 12A or PG-13 certificate. And frankly, it’s just not necessary to show it. The scene has more impact without it. It very clearly made a statement of “Steve wouldn’t have done that” by focussing on the man, not the act.
CheesecakeRunner said:
And frankly, it’s just not necessary to show it. The scene has more impact without it. It very clearly made a statement of “Steve wouldn’t have done that” by focussing on the man, not the act.
Also don't think it was coincidence the shield to the chest was the same way Steve beat Iron Man in Civil War, but held back in the end. Good episode, Zemo definitely a favourite just as he was in Civil War for me; I agree with his motivations so rooting for him really.
CheesecakeRunner said:
DonBarracuda said:
Disney is funny, they can show Thanos' purple decapitated head but won't even dare show a frame of the "terrorist".
Others have outlined well why this was done from a story point of view. It’ll also have been done because Falcon and Winter Solider airs on TV and is not subject to certification, whereas Endgame was shot to fit clearly in the bounds of a 12A or PG-13 certificate. And frankly, it’s just not necessary to show it. The scene has more impact without it. It very clearly made a statement of “Steve wouldn’t have done that” by focussing on the man, not the act.
very good episode. A couple of thoughts
- Zemo (for all that he's bad) has the same desire WRT the SS serum as Falcon
- Battlestar was Cap's conscience (or his Jiminy Cricket)
as others have said showing Cap's shield all bloodied was a far more powerful statement than 'just' a bashed in body. In that regard Karli's plan to kill Cap could have been said to be a massive success (albeit at a great cost)
- Zemo (for all that he's bad) has the same desire WRT the SS serum as Falcon
- Battlestar was Cap's conscience (or his Jiminy Cricket)
as others have said showing Cap's shield all bloodied was a far more powerful statement than 'just' a bashed in body. In that regard Karli's plan to kill Cap could have been said to be a massive success (albeit at a great cost)
forrestgrump said:
Good episode, Zemo definitely a favourite just as he was in Civil War for me; I agree with his motivations so rooting for him really.
Much of what Zemo says makes a lot of sense. The same could be said of the Flag Smashers. Or Killmonger. Or Thanos. That’s the thing about terrorists. If you sit down and talk with them they probably have a reasonable cause, and don’t see themselves as the bad guys. The problem is their ‘by any means necessary’ attitude to achieving their goals.
The MCU does like to let you see the villain’s point of view, which makes the stories more interesting. But I do wish people would talk as though a legitimate end justifies the villain’s means.
But, yeah, Zemo is great. I think they might be rehabilitating him the way they did with Loki. (But he’s still mass murdering terrorist.)
CheesecakeRunner said:
Others have outlined well why this was done from a story point of view. It’ll also have been done because Falcon and Winter Solider airs on TV and is not subject to certification, whereas Endgame was shot to fit clearly in the bounds of a 12A or PG-13 certificate.
And frankly, it’s just not necessary to show it. The scene has more impact without it. It very clearly made a statement of “Steve wouldn’t have done that” by focussing on the man, not the act.
That's true, but to me it looked like they edited even further the cutaways felt messyAnd frankly, it’s just not necessary to show it. The scene has more impact without it. It very clearly made a statement of “Steve wouldn’t have done that” by focussing on the man, not the act.
Some of the editing looks weird, showing others reactions to off screen voices, odd cuts etc.. Nothing from Disney but it looks like the series was edited and recut last year when Covid hit because of a big virus and vaccine storyline in the series, it was originally meant to be the first series out, before Wandavision. https://youtu.be/VhKIAHABGac
ajprice said:
Some of the editing looks weird, showing others reactions to off screen voices, odd cuts etc.. Nothing from Disney but it looks like the series was edited and recut last year when Covid hit because of a big virus and vaccine storyline in the series, it was originally meant to be the first series out, before Wandavision. https://youtu.be/VhKIAHABGac
Wow. That seems really plausible. Makes the fact the series is so great even more remarkable.Liked today’s episode. Some character development stuff that I would have criticised as filler in other series, but it was a nice break from the explosions this time around.
Trying to work out what’s in the box from Wakanda Sam was given - I suspect it might be the stuff they use to enhance Black Panther, to give Sam super-soldier like abilities without needing the serum.
Trying to work out what’s in the box from Wakanda Sam was given - I suspect it might be the stuff they use to enhance Black Panther, to give Sam super-soldier like abilities without needing the serum.
DanL said:
Liked today’s episode. Some character development stuff that I would have criticised as filler in other series, but it was a nice break from the explosions this time around.
Trying to work out what’s in the box from Wakanda Sam was given - I suspect it might be the stuff they use to enhance Black Panther, to give Sam super-soldier like abilities without needing the serum.
I thought that was an excellent episode. The opening fight was very tense, even if it looked more made-for-TV than previous episodes. Trying to work out what’s in the box from Wakanda Sam was given - I suspect it might be the stuff they use to enhance Black Panther, to give Sam super-soldier like abilities without needing the serum.
The character building scenes are what make the show. Until now both central characters have only existed to help tell Steve Roger’s story. I’m now interested in both of them. Zemo has been elevated to more than a one-note evil genius.
Captain John Walker was expected to be just ‘the wrong guy’ but combination of writing and performance have made him very relatable. I even felt bad at how harshly he was punished, despite watching him murder a bloke infront of a crowd.
The suitcase will contain a new wing suit, enhanced with Wakanda tech. Bucky probably asked them to give it a ‘Captain America’ look, to help push Sam into accept the role.
Until this episode I thought Sam would end up with the shield, but not use the Captain America name. However, when Isaiah Bradley said no self respecting black man would do so, I think that will help push him towards it.
Taking of which, that was a really good scene where he tells his story. All too easy to believe that is exactly how he would have been treated.
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