Council Tax on home of deceased person
Discussion
I was just reading the thread about a council chasing for Council Tax which prompts me to put this question out to the combined PistonHeads knowledgebase:
My mum passed away at the end of 2019 leaving an empty house for us to clear and put on the market. The job was left to my sister and I to clear the property of all possessions and furniture, make some much needed repairs to ceilings and reglaze around 20 double glazing units that had failed. Due to my sister and I living around 30 and 40 miles respectively away from the property, we need to travel to get there. With the pandemic starting at the end of February last year, pretty much the only things we could get done on my mum's estate were paperwork, so I applied and got probate done at the end of February 2020. Travel to the property was off limits due to the lock downs.
We got the house emptied and the repairs done for the beginning of November 2020. Getting rid of waste was difficult due to the local tips being shut. Getting furniture removed was a real headache as charity shops were closed, or those that would collect furniture were no longer doing so or you had to leave furniture outside the house. My sister and I were not up to carrying double wardrobes downstairs and out of the door.
We put the house on the market November 2020 and it sold within days. However, the sale only went through last week, so took the best part of 4 months. Why? Well coronavirus and the Stamp Duty holiday made for a rather unusual but incredibly busy market. Solicitors had got very busy.
The fly in the ointment - just before last Christmas, I visited the property and picked up a letter from the council which was a Council Tax bill, backdated to August 2020 i.e. 6 months after the date of probate. I called them and they said that they routinely charge council tax on properties that have been empty, 6 months after grant of probate. We were therefore lumbered with an unexpected bill for some £900.
I have emailed the council but they take (in general) a month to respond to every email. I have made the point that:
1. they only notified us of a liability some 4 months after that liability started
2. the house was empty - with no one there to benefit from a service
3. due to coronavirus we were not legally able to get to the house for the majority of the time, and could not get people to help us
4. the council's tips were closed - so if we could get to the house, we could not use one of the key services for which we would be paying for and benefitting from
As above, emails are slow to receive a response, but I have made the above points to them. I do not know what laws come in to play or if the council has some local discretion which it can apply. I did receive their leaflet that explains council tax on empty properties, but I think there is a good argument to push back here. After all, they are really applying a charge to my mum's estate (and she always paid her council tax / rates for the 72 years she was there), and she is no longer with is (God bless her).
Any thoughts in rights here or how to appeal?
Interestingly, in checking my mum's affairs, I discovered the council owes her £300 since 2018 due to overpayment of her care bill. That is (of course) a different department though!
My mum passed away at the end of 2019 leaving an empty house for us to clear and put on the market. The job was left to my sister and I to clear the property of all possessions and furniture, make some much needed repairs to ceilings and reglaze around 20 double glazing units that had failed. Due to my sister and I living around 30 and 40 miles respectively away from the property, we need to travel to get there. With the pandemic starting at the end of February last year, pretty much the only things we could get done on my mum's estate were paperwork, so I applied and got probate done at the end of February 2020. Travel to the property was off limits due to the lock downs.
We got the house emptied and the repairs done for the beginning of November 2020. Getting rid of waste was difficult due to the local tips being shut. Getting furniture removed was a real headache as charity shops were closed, or those that would collect furniture were no longer doing so or you had to leave furniture outside the house. My sister and I were not up to carrying double wardrobes downstairs and out of the door.
We put the house on the market November 2020 and it sold within days. However, the sale only went through last week, so took the best part of 4 months. Why? Well coronavirus and the Stamp Duty holiday made for a rather unusual but incredibly busy market. Solicitors had got very busy.
The fly in the ointment - just before last Christmas, I visited the property and picked up a letter from the council which was a Council Tax bill, backdated to August 2020 i.e. 6 months after the date of probate. I called them and they said that they routinely charge council tax on properties that have been empty, 6 months after grant of probate. We were therefore lumbered with an unexpected bill for some £900.
I have emailed the council but they take (in general) a month to respond to every email. I have made the point that:
1. they only notified us of a liability some 4 months after that liability started
2. the house was empty - with no one there to benefit from a service
3. due to coronavirus we were not legally able to get to the house for the majority of the time, and could not get people to help us
4. the council's tips were closed - so if we could get to the house, we could not use one of the key services for which we would be paying for and benefitting from
As above, emails are slow to receive a response, but I have made the above points to them. I do not know what laws come in to play or if the council has some local discretion which it can apply. I did receive their leaflet that explains council tax on empty properties, but I think there is a good argument to push back here. After all, they are really applying a charge to my mum's estate (and she always paid her council tax / rates for the 72 years she was there), and she is no longer with is (God bless her).
Any thoughts in rights here or how to appeal?
Interestingly, in checking my mum's affairs, I discovered the council owes her £300 since 2018 due to overpayment of her care bill. That is (of course) a different department though!
Our council charge 150% tax on a house that has been empty for more than six months, when we were doing up my sons it was empty for a while due to problems with planning etc originally the guy from the council said take out the bath and you will not have to pay tax, bath came out as we where gutting the house anyway.
A few months later a letter arrived saying the removal of the bath no longer stopped the need to pay council tax and from then on tax would be levied at 150%.
Not exactly the same but tax on a empty house.
A few months later a letter arrived saying the removal of the bath no longer stopped the need to pay council tax and from then on tax would be levied at 150%.
Not exactly the same but tax on a empty house.
We had the same when the wife’s aunt died and she inherited the house.
The aunt was paying 75% as a sole occupant when she was alive and using council services.
But once she was dead and the house sat empty with no bins needing emptied, etc, they somehow managed to justify charging 100% council tax.
It took a while to sell due to 2 sales falling through but luckily we managed to sell it as they start charging 200% eventually.
I don’t think you’ll get anywhere with your complaint OP as the law allows them to charge this.
The aunt was paying 75% as a sole occupant when she was alive and using council services.
But once she was dead and the house sat empty with no bins needing emptied, etc, they somehow managed to justify charging 100% council tax.
It took a while to sell due to 2 sales falling through but luckily we managed to sell it as they start charging 200% eventually.
I don’t think you’ll get anywhere with your complaint OP as the law allows them to charge this.
hairy v said:
I had a similar situation and same response from the council - 6 months free, then 6 months at normal rate. After that they charge 200% for empty properties
Same here as above. Dad died end of 2017, finally sold property Oct 2020. First 6 months free, after that full council tax - no exemptions whether furnished or not. Looks like you'll have to pay.The 6mths after Probate is absolutely standard.
OK, I know you were caught out by Covid, but, for whatever reasons, your timescales are very relaxed. FIL died last March just as Covid was getting going, so we couldn't market the house, but we put it on as soon as things opened up in the middle of May. It was done and dusted mid August. Most of the contents went in a skip and the council took beds etc. If you're pushed for time and convenience, you can get it cleared (although a quote I got was surprisingly expensive).
OK, so you've got a bill for £900 (but sounds like you're going to get £300 back). What did the house sell for - the bill (whoch is down to the Estate) is neither here nor there is it?
As for not using council services - maybe that's true, but they're missing out on income they would be getting if the house was occupied.
OK, I know you were caught out by Covid, but, for whatever reasons, your timescales are very relaxed. FIL died last March just as Covid was getting going, so we couldn't market the house, but we put it on as soon as things opened up in the middle of May. It was done and dusted mid August. Most of the contents went in a skip and the council took beds etc. If you're pushed for time and convenience, you can get it cleared (although a quote I got was surprisingly expensive).
OK, so you've got a bill for £900 (but sounds like you're going to get £300 back). What did the house sell for - the bill (whoch is down to the Estate) is neither here nor there is it?
As for not using council services - maybe that's true, but they're missing out on income they would be getting if the house was occupied.
I don't believe the lockdown regulations preventing visiting the house to check it is okay, prepare for sale, etc if you are executor as you are dealing a legal obligation, etc.
Been through similar and visited the property regularly even though 100 miles away. The house insurance will expect regular visits.
Been through similar and visited the property regularly even though 100 miles away. The house insurance will expect regular visits.
When my FIL died in September, the council immediately made the house exempt. When we got probate granted in Jan, they refunded the council tax from Sept to March and told us we have 6 months before council tax applies again.
They told me what would happen when we notified them of his death and gave them our contact details.
They told me what would happen when we notified them of his death and gave them our contact details.
Mother in Law died 10th Feb, her Council tax was paid up to the end of the year. Usual 25% single occupancy rebate.
Informed Council 2 days after, 2 days after that we get a bill to pay which is collecting the 25% left to the end of the year.
No holidays from this lot, and double after 12 months being empty, that won't happen, Bungalows are in short supply.
But we did feel the pain of clearing out the property and seeing someones life disappear in a skip because no-one wants or can take things at present.
Informed Council 2 days after, 2 days after that we get a bill to pay which is collecting the 25% left to the end of the year.
No holidays from this lot, and double after 12 months being empty, that won't happen, Bungalows are in short supply.
But we did feel the pain of clearing out the property and seeing someones life disappear in a skip because no-one wants or can take things at present.
Slightly different story but still along the general theme of councils giving no quarter.
M-i-l died, lived alone, council tax paid up to date in 10 monthly payments, single person discount. Timing of her passing meant that all ten payments had already been made.
2 executors, b-i-l and myself.
Council informed, who confirmed that for 6 months from date of death no council tax to be paid, if house not sold at that point then unoccupied rate to be charged.
OK we thought, house will be cleared and on market soon, should be no issue, estate agent very confident of quick sale.
We were both then surprised to each receive a council tax bill for the property, claiming unpaid tax for the rest of the year in which she died, plus an extra for removal of single person occupancy discount. We each had a bill for the full amount calculated, see later.
Reason for this the council claimed was that when f-i-l died, his will had put 50% of the property into a trust, with benefit that it had to be for the use of his widow to live in. Council argued that as b-i-l and myself were named persons in the trust, we were now also the owners, and as there were two of us, we were the owner / occupiers and therefore no single person discount. They also said that when the 6 months after her death elapsed the empty property rate would apply. They never managed to explain how they could apply the you're owner occupiers but simultaneously also apply the property is not occupied rule, seemed if someone's name is attached via land registry regardless of circs you're an owner occupier.
It got better, b-i-l who was handling the relevant finances and lived closer paid the bill, and monthly payment set up for the next year's council tax while it was up for sale. All sorted so we thought. Nope, remember council had sent us both bills for the full amount, and it took a lot of arguing with the accounts department to show that only one of these accounts needed to be paid. Computer says you owe, pay up. But But But. Computer says no, pay up or....
s.
M-i-l died, lived alone, council tax paid up to date in 10 monthly payments, single person discount. Timing of her passing meant that all ten payments had already been made.
2 executors, b-i-l and myself.
Council informed, who confirmed that for 6 months from date of death no council tax to be paid, if house not sold at that point then unoccupied rate to be charged.
OK we thought, house will be cleared and on market soon, should be no issue, estate agent very confident of quick sale.
We were both then surprised to each receive a council tax bill for the property, claiming unpaid tax for the rest of the year in which she died, plus an extra for removal of single person occupancy discount. We each had a bill for the full amount calculated, see later.
Reason for this the council claimed was that when f-i-l died, his will had put 50% of the property into a trust, with benefit that it had to be for the use of his widow to live in. Council argued that as b-i-l and myself were named persons in the trust, we were now also the owners, and as there were two of us, we were the owner / occupiers and therefore no single person discount. They also said that when the 6 months after her death elapsed the empty property rate would apply. They never managed to explain how they could apply the you're owner occupiers but simultaneously also apply the property is not occupied rule, seemed if someone's name is attached via land registry regardless of circs you're an owner occupier.
It got better, b-i-l who was handling the relevant finances and lived closer paid the bill, and monthly payment set up for the next year's council tax while it was up for sale. All sorted so we thought. Nope, remember council had sent us both bills for the full amount, and it took a lot of arguing with the accounts department to show that only one of these accounts needed to be paid. Computer says you owe, pay up. But But But. Computer says no, pay up or....
s.As mentioned, it does look in line with the guidelines of charging 6 months on from grant of probate - see “ When you do not pay Council Tax”
https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/second-homes-and-em...
The delay in billing perhaps could be that they allow some time before billing in certain circumstances/ how quickly they process the probate notification (not sure how they obtain the information).
First port of call as you’ve done, is to email the details and await the response. Likely it will confirm liability has been deferred for 6 months post probate in line with policy.
A phone call would likely be to a call centre rather than the back office so would only end up with a standard response of it having followed policy.
Once they have responded, you could ask for the issue to be escalated for review by a senior officer to see if they will amend the liability on discretionary grounds based on the situation you’ve explained.
I had dealings with the Principal Enforcement Officer in our local council re: exemptions / liability, but they may go by a different title elsewhere.
There were changes around 2012 for councils to set the exemptions/ long term empty property premium charges in order to fund budgets due to central government funding cuts. Therefore some exemptions differ council to council in how they discount empty properties for.
Good luck with resolving it.
https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/second-homes-and-em...
The delay in billing perhaps could be that they allow some time before billing in certain circumstances/ how quickly they process the probate notification (not sure how they obtain the information).
First port of call as you’ve done, is to email the details and await the response. Likely it will confirm liability has been deferred for 6 months post probate in line with policy.
A phone call would likely be to a call centre rather than the back office so would only end up with a standard response of it having followed policy.
Once they have responded, you could ask for the issue to be escalated for review by a senior officer to see if they will amend the liability on discretionary grounds based on the situation you’ve explained.
I had dealings with the Principal Enforcement Officer in our local council re: exemptions / liability, but they may go by a different title elsewhere.
There were changes around 2012 for councils to set the exemptions/ long term empty property premium charges in order to fund budgets due to central government funding cuts. Therefore some exemptions differ council to council in how they discount empty properties for.
Good luck with resolving it.
Edited by lastofthev8s on Saturday 6th March 23:23
Edited by lastofthev8s on Saturday 6th March 23:32
Thanks everyone, responses and experiences are interesting and helpful.
It feels like someone is twisting the knife on this. We have been through a lot during the last year or so. Tidying up a deceased parent's affairs and emptying a lifetime of memories was a big job and not exactly easy or enjoyable. Good old council is ready to kick us when we are already down. Whilst councils have their rules, it has hardly been a normal year. Sticks with me that they can send an estate a significant bill, yet the key parts of the service we needed e.g. recycling and waste, was not available much of the time. I will persevere with my argument and see where it goes. If I have to hand over that kind of money, I will get my money's worth in their time investigating it.
It feels like someone is twisting the knife on this. We have been through a lot during the last year or so. Tidying up a deceased parent's affairs and emptying a lifetime of memories was a big job and not exactly easy or enjoyable. Good old council is ready to kick us when we are already down. Whilst councils have their rules, it has hardly been a normal year. Sticks with me that they can send an estate a significant bill, yet the key parts of the service we needed e.g. recycling and waste, was not available much of the time. I will persevere with my argument and see where it goes. If I have to hand over that kind of money, I will get my money's worth in their time investigating it.
Unfortunately coronavirus has no impact on your council tax bill.
I’m “trying” to renovate a property I bought but because it’s not been occupied for 2 years it’s classed as long term empty so 200% council tax bill. I did contact the LA to explain I couldn’t be there to renovate due to laws governing movement around the country but just got a reply telling me no change in law to council tax due to coronavirus.
My Mum died in December so I’ve been given 6 months exemption on the council tax for her property. After that it will definitely not be classed as empty, once stung ...
I’m “trying” to renovate a property I bought but because it’s not been occupied for 2 years it’s classed as long term empty so 200% council tax bill. I did contact the LA to explain I couldn’t be there to renovate due to laws governing movement around the country but just got a reply telling me no change in law to council tax due to coronavirus.
My Mum died in December so I’ve been given 6 months exemption on the council tax for her property. After that it will definitely not be classed as empty, once stung ...
I’m surprised recycling centres / tips weren’t open throughout my local council plus the surrounding 2 authorities all had their facilities openreach throughout - just with distancing and an appointment based system which works really well and tbh should be implemented all the time IMO.
Similarly house clearance company and waste removal companies were in operation whilst in lockdown last year (I used both a couple of times for a few large jobs) without issue at all so I’m not sure a complaint will get any air time at all with them.
Similarly house clearance company and waste removal companies were in operation whilst in lockdown last year (I used both a couple of times for a few large jobs) without issue at all so I’m not sure a complaint will get any air time at all with them.
The local tip in question was closed part of the time. Even once open, it was not a normal service with caveats of 'essentials waste only. With a queue that was some 1-2 hours a time, or odd number plated cars one day and evens the next, by no way did it fit with clearing a house some 40 miles away.
House clearance companies wanted to charge a fortune and told us furniture would be broken up for power station fuel. So we would have been paying to destroy perfectly good pieces including an antique chest. Charity shops that normally want this stuff had stopped their services. They did not have room to keep collecting furniture as their shops were shut. They had reached capacity for storage. Eventually, we got a lucky break with a hospice and had to pay them to remove stuff.
All I am saying is that this took a lot of time due to the prevailing circumstances that everyone had to adapt and work through.
House clearance companies wanted to charge a fortune and told us furniture would be broken up for power station fuel. So we would have been paying to destroy perfectly good pieces including an antique chest. Charity shops that normally want this stuff had stopped their services. They did not have room to keep collecting furniture as their shops were shut. They had reached capacity for storage. Eventually, we got a lucky break with a hospice and had to pay them to remove stuff.
All I am saying is that this took a lot of time due to the prevailing circumstances that everyone had to adapt and work through.
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