Major explosion/bomb in Oslo

[caraddict]

I hate the fact that I couldn't reply to this thread before my first 14 days were over (stupid limit). Read fast through just about the whole thread and some stuff made me giggle, otherwise there are a lot of interesting takes on this tragic happening. Had a lot on my mind but it's mostly gone now...

I was in a big room on that day with windows partly opened because of the heat outside, and I felt (and heard) the explosion approx. 3-4 km. from the sight. The wind that was caused by the explosion entered the room, swept through it in half a second and disappeared. It was such a strange behavior for the wind that for a second my instincts were a little bit disturbed.
The noise was very strange too. It had traveled through hundreds of blocks and when it reached me it sounded like if you throw a wooden chair hard on a wooden floor - kind of hard to explain.
Still unbelievable that I have experienced a terrorist attack on my body, you only read about these things in the news right...?

I went to the grocery store about half hour later and noticed that something was wrong by looking at other peoples faces. Again, my instincts just knew that something wasn't right. I was using my iPod, continued listening to my music without caring much more, and went home to my parents. Suddenly I started getting phones after phones from other friends/families outside of Norway, and everyone was asking me if I was O.K.
I turned the TV on and could not believe what I saw. The very exact same road the explosion happened by, is the exact same road I use to drive home from whenever I am in the city to buy me kebab type of food. I got a little more disturbed and started checking out Twitter, Facebook, my mobile phone etc. to gather information about my family and friends and check if they were O.K.

So, just a few hours later A. B. Breivik started shooting on the island (Utøya). I'm an active Twitter user and used it as a source to understand more about the situation. Already after one - two hours it was reported that many Muslim girls and boys were harassed on the streets, shops and a buss (that I personally read about on Twitter). When this sort of stuff starts happening in Norway, you know people are REALLY frustrated!

Some of the younger Norwegians I followed on Twitter started asking for help to send someone at that island, because Breivik was hunting them down and they were afraid to call the people and get discovered by talking. We had no idea how serious it actually was - I was assuming that it probably was some kid who brought a an air gun with him or something else like that. Following the media didn't help because everyone knew as little as I did.
Many of those I connected with on Twitter died that day (4-5 kids), and it was devastating to discover over time who died and read the last happy tweets of those young girls and boys... It's true that Norway is a small country - I personally have two female friends who's got a brother and a sister that were on Utøya. I had met the sister of my friend once and it gave me chills, even worse when I saw her in the news explaining what happened.

I have never in my life experienced a tragedy which drags me down emotionally every damn time I'm reminded of it, so I'll make this part short as I'm getting all shaky again writing this stuff.
I was stuck in front of the TV for about 12 hours that Friday. I fell asleep watching TV with my family (mom, dad, and kid brother). The next day, I wake up... They had released a death toll estimate of 60 people... I was even more disturbed and couldn't believe it, and refused to believe it. My dad walked by, and I just stared at him - when he asked me what's wrong I told him about the estimated death toll, he too was left all speechless. There was nothing to say.

I continued watch TV that whole weekend (Friday - Sunday) as the photos of A. B. Breivik were revealed and everyone was furthermore shocked. I still remember how my hands were shaking all weekend as crying 15-17 year olds told their stories to the cameras. It wasn't until Monday that I decided to meet some friends of mine. Most of those who are close to me were not available so I joined some friends I had only met a few times before. We just sat at a café for hours and hours and kept talking about how unbelievable this was. It seemed no matter how much I talked about it wasn't enough - the weight on why shoulders didn't get any lighter. That's when I knew how big of a tragedy this was. You could also tell by how many beverages that where ordered that day - everyone was talking so much that they got thirsty all the time.

Still to this day, almost a year later, it's difficult to comprehend it all. I don't know how the media coverage in UK, but will follow this thread and try to paint an actual and correct picture of the person and the trial.


My own pictures from the following days:

The brown building in the background was the explosion target


Just behind the above brown building, there were shattered windows hundreds of meters across the sight:


People in line to sign official 22/7 guestbook:



Mayor of Oslo:


The leader of the youth labor party, who was a main target but escaped from the island:


HRH Prince of Norway:


Prime Minister of Norway:


After the Prime Minister speech, this is how we reacted:



My friends hanging up roses on the fence that blocked the closed roads where there were glass everywhere:


People as far as my eyes could see, literally, and in every direction:










Pictures I collected from the media the first week (or so). These are all random as it's very time consuming to arrange them + comment on each one. Keep in mind that the city only has 500.000 people, so the number of people that showed up on the 25th of July for support, it was just mindblowing. When we later started to sing together it felt unbelievable and I struggled to hold back tears.






































































Damn onions...



Sorry for the long post. It helps to talk about it.



Edit; Corrected some minor spelling mistakes.

Edited by caraddict on Wednesday 25th April 17:38

[Apache]

Don't know what to say to that really. I just hope something positive can be found from all this pain

[MX7]

Great post. Always interesting to hear first-hand experiences.

caraddict said:

I hate the fact that I couldn't reply to this thread before my first 14 days were over (stupid limit).

I suspect that if you'd contacted them and told them why you wanted to post, they might have made an exception, but that's only a guess.

And welcome!

[NDA]

That's a powerful post Caraddict. Thank you for sharing those photos too - incredible crowds and a show of national unity.

What is the general mood about having this guy on trial?

[TallbutBuxomly]

Also lovely to see how the people were reacting to the police and armed services. Seemed to be a case of everyone was in the situation together.

[caraddict]

Apache said:

Don't know what to say to that really. I just hope something positive can be found from all this pain

MX7 said:

Great post. Always interesting to hear first-hand experiences.

caraddict said:

I hate the fact that I couldn't reply to this thread before my first 14 days were over (stupid limit).

I suspect that if you'd contacted them and told them why you wanted to post, they might have made an exception, but that's only a guess.

And welcome!

Thank you - glad to share.

NDA said:

That's a powerful post Caraddict. Thank you for sharing those photos too - incredible crowds and a show of national unity.

What is the general mood about having this guy on trial?

It started out in anger because in general people were sick of seeing his face everywhere in the Norwegian media and no one wanted to give him the freedom of defending himself so publicly. Every day the trial is going on (today is the 8th day, I believe) there are live broadcasting on our equivalent of BBC, but the press/media are not allowed show him talking when he is replying to the prosecutors (maybe they are doing this as a measure to stop/minimize post-trial propaganda videos?). So what they are showing us on TV is basically just text of what he's saying, and all the other parts of the trial is broad casted as usual.

After the first week was over (last week) people are calming down a little bit. The prosecutors are getting a lot of positive response on how they are handling the trial. Their strategy is basically to "expose the troll to sunlight". They are calmly talking to him and asking him thoroughly about what he did, why and what he was think during his actions.

I too was a little angry at first because I thought the trial would serve as a public speaking scene for A. B. Breivik. After watching how they are broadcasting the trial & slowly extracting information from him by treating him like a human being, I have great confidence that the prosecutors are doing an excellent job.

There are still people who want him off the TV screens, people who want to see him talk live during the trial and people who defend his opinions (and, sadly, borderline defending his actions). But overall, I feel that Norwegians in general are proud (if you can use this word in this tragedy) of this being a proper and fair trial and not a monster slaying public session.

The only thing I don't get is why he's allowed to send and receive letters + he has access to the newspapers. This is the "only" thing that seems to be bothering a lot of people.

As a side note, the leader of the support group for the victims, said something great: "He should not be punished for his opinions, but for all the lives he has ruined".

TallbutBuxomly said:

Also lovely to see how the people were reacting to the police and armed services. Seemed to be a case of everyone was in the situation together.

Yes, I knew Norwegians were close as a national group, but I had no idea how united Norwegians could be. One of Norways great writers once said: "We are so few, in this country. Every fallen is either a brother or a friend".

Edited by caraddict on Wednesday 25th April 17:46

[Finlandia]

caraddict said:

Yes, I knew Norwegians were close as a group, but I had no idea how united Norwegians could be. One of Norways great writers once said: "We are so few, in this country. Every fallen is either a brother or a friend".

One only has to watch Norway and the people on 17th of May to realise how proud and united you are, no such scenes on 6th of June here...

Not trying to sound trollish or so, but could you as a Norrbagge shed any light on the political debating and aspects of immigration and political correctness in Norway? I imagine it being somewhat better than in Sweden, but still not open either, or am I totally off?

Great photos by the way.

[NDA]

Thank you.

As the father of a teenage girl, I cannot begin to imagine the loss. And for nothing.

[Shay HTFC]

Finlandia said:

caraddict said:

Yes, I knew Norwegians were close as a group, but I had no idea how united Norwegians could be. One of Norways great writers once said: "We are so few, in this country. Every fallen is either a brother or a friend".

One only has to watch Norway and the people on 17th of May to realise how proud and united you are, no such scenes on 6th of June here...

Don't you think theres a difference though. I'm sure if a national tragedy happened here, people would be filling the streets too.

[fluffnik]

AJS- said:

Since Islamic terrorism has become a major threat, many western governments and organisations seem to have been going out of their way to avoid offending Islam.

The problem, at least in part, is that most, if not all, Western states have similar god-bothering nonsense at their core.

It's difficult to hold primitive peasant superstitions up to the ridicule they so richly deserve when your establishment is founded on much the same...

[Finlandia]

Shay HTFC said:

Don't you think theres a difference though. I'm sure if a national tragedy happened here, people would be filling the streets too.

Sadly no, Sweden is too devided.

[caraddict]

NDA said:

Thank you.

As the father of a teenage girl, I cannot begin to imagine the loss. And for nothing.

I don't have children of my own, but I can't imagine it either. I can only think of the sister of my friend who is the only person I have personally met that actually was on Utøya that day (she escaped!). She's a really sweet young girl with a great heart and spirit. And through the Internet (Twitter), it seemed like most of the other kids were like her too, very innocent and happy... I can't comprehend how terrifying it must have been for them...

Shay HTFC said:

Don't you think theres a difference though. I'm sure if a national tragedy happened here, people would be filling the streets too.

This is a typical 17th of May in Oslo:



I haven't heard about this kind of national celebration elsewhere.

Finlandia said:

One only has to watch Norway and the people on 17th of May to realise how proud and united you are, no such scenes on 6th of June here...

Not trying to sound trollish or so, but could you as a Norrbagge shed any light on the political debating and aspects of immigration and political correctness in Norway? I imagine it being somewhat better than in Sweden, but still not open either, or am I totally off?

Great photos by the way.

I don't feel I know enough to give you an opinion on whether the debate has changed or not. There was a lot of questioning regarding the high level of political correctness - as in many European countries.

The main debate going on right now is if the level of censorship on online newspapers etc. is too high for our own good. Like if "harsh" opinions are censored/removed from public debates then they often start happening in online places where there are only extreme opinions with no one to challenge them or moderate them.
A. B. Breivik was active on these kind of sites and those were one of his main channels for inspiration. It's in the human nature to absorb your surroundings values, so I guess that's what he did IMHO...

Personally I feel both sides need to rethink the way of debating. It seems that one side goes full on about how Europe is on fire, how the government want every bad thing to happen etc. etc., while the other side raises the racism card way too early in every debate and don't really listen to the right sides arguments properly. It's pretty tiring - equally from both sides. I hope both sides realize that they need to change the way of dialogue.

Edited by caraddict on Wednesday 25th April 19:43

[davepoth]

Many countries across the world have a day when they celebrate their democracy. We have Bonfire Night, when chavs set fire to cars.

[Finlandia]

caraddict said:

Finlandia said:

One only has to watch Norway and the people on 17th of May to realise how proud and united you are, no such scenes on 6th of June here...

Not trying to sound trollish or so, but could you as a Norrbagge shed any light on the political debating and aspects of immigration and political correctness in Norway? I imagine it being somewhat better than in Sweden, but still not open either, or am I totally off?

Great photos by the way.

I don't feel I know enough to give you an opinion on whether the debate has changed or not. There was a lot of questioning regarding the high level of political correctness - as in many European countries.

The main debate going on right now is if the level of censorship on online newspapers etc. is too high for our own good. Like if "harsh" opinions are censored/removed from public debates then they often start happening in online places where there are only extreme opinions with no one to challenge them or moderate them.
A. B. Breivik was active on these kind of sites and those were one of his main channels for inspiration. It's in the human nature to absorb your surroundings values, so I guess that's what he did IMHO...

Personally I feel both sides need to rethink the way of debating. It seems that one side goes full on about how Europe is on fire, how the government want every bad thing to happen etc. etc., while the other side raises the racism card way too early in every debate and don't really listen to the right sides arguments properly. It's pretty tiring - equally from both sides. I hope both sides realize that they need to change the way of dialogue.

Edited by caraddict on Wednesday 25th April 19:43

Thanks, that is pretty much as I thought/feared it would be. Politicians take note, as long as there is a fairly open debate, there is hope of a peaceful solution.

[AJS-]

fluffnik said:

AJS- said:

Since Islamic terrorism has become a major threat, many western governments and organisations seem to have been going out of their way to avoid offending Islam.

The problem, at least in part, is that most, if not all, Western states have similar god-bothering nonsense at their core.

It's difficult to hold primitive peasant superstitions up to the ridicule they so richly deserve when your establishment is founded on much the same...

On the contrary, I feel the fact that we can have religion without having to be fundamentalist and violent about it is a testimony to people's general good nature. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to turn into totally rational atheists over night, but to have all the countries of Europe basically behaving in a secular way is no small achievement if you look at the history of the last 2000 years.

[NDA]

caraddict said:

The main debate going on right now is if the level of censorship on online newspapers etc. is too high for our own good. Like if "harsh" opinions are censored/removed from public debates then they often start happening in online places where there are only extreme opinions with no one to challenge them or moderate them.
A. B. Breivik was active on these kind of sites and those were one of his main channels for inspiration. It's in the human nature to absorb your surroundings values, so I guess that's what he did IMHO...
]

Interesting points and expressed in very reasonable terms.

You are changing my view on the publicity surrounding the trial and having B on view. My initial position was that he should be shot somewhere out of view and without discussion. But I can see the 'value' in forensically dissecting him in court.

[fluffnik]

AJS- said:

fluffnik said:

The problem, at least in part, is that most, if not all, Western states have similar god-bothering nonsense at their core.

It's difficult to hold primitive peasant superstitions up to the ridicule they so richly deserve when your establishment is founded on much the same...

On the contrary, I feel the fact that we can have religion without having to be fundamentalist and violent about it is a testimony to people's general good nature.

I'm with Christopher Hitchins in finding religion entirely pernicious...

The most "moderate" of the religious faithful believe in the same core delusions as the most fanatical fundamentalist which puts them very much on the back foot when it comes to discrediting the nonsense.

Breivik's apparently non-believing "civic" Christianity is an interesting variant...

AJS- said:

It's unrealistic to expect everyone to turn into totally rational atheists over night, but to have all the countries of Europe basically behaving in a secular way is no small achievement if you look at the history of the last 2000 years.

I'm deeply disappointed by religions recent resurgence, in my teens it seemed to be fading away quite nicely.

It would help if we stopped supporting (or even allowing) faith schools which inflict deliberate brain injuries on children and got rid of Bishops in Parliament.

At least we don't have the church taxes that are still prevalent in much of the continent.

I'm all for personal religious freedom but it disgusts me that religions and religious institutions should receive any special protections or privileges.

[Shay HTFC]

I think that in a way, people need religion. As long as there are hard times in the world, people are going to turn to religion of some sort.

[chris watton]

fluffnik said:

I'm deeply disappointed by religions recent resurgence, in my teens it seemed to be fading away quite nicely.

I'm all for personal religious freedom but it disgusts me that religions and religious institutions should receive any special protections or privileges.

Me too! We never used to bother about religion - I always assumed that we were 'growing out of it', being a civilised society - but we do seem to have regressed....

It also seems that some blogs cannot allow comment, even in the DT - if the words 'Islam' or 'Muslim' are included in the blog, it seems a fair bet that comments are closed...

[Apache]

Shay HTFC said:

I think that in a way, people need religion. As long as there are hard times in the world, people are going to turn to religion of some sort.

It'd be nice if they could turn to each other rather than some imaginary friend who is better than everyone else s imaginary friend though wouldn't it