Jimmy Savile

[Oakey]

Hugo a Gogo said:

Bitofbully said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

of course he didn't know, it's not like there is any paperwork to fill in for a marriage

He didn't know. She deliberately concealed her age.

you know this for a fact, do you?

He's hardly going to say "Oh yes, I totally knew she was underage and I was breaking the law but I did it anyway", is he?

[Eric Mc]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Eric Mc said:

I would suggest that the age of consent be INCREASED rather than decreased. Whilst physically, young people may be maturing earlier - in my opinion, mentally they are maturing much later. Many youngsters of 18 today behave and act as if they were 12.

What penalty would you impose on a couple of 17-year olds going at it like rabbits? And why?

As for idiotic 18s, I suspect this arises in part from our "letter of the law" society. In the days when you could sneak into a pub at 15/16 you knew darned well that if you misbehaved the landlord would sling you out.

It was a tongue in cheek comment to be honest - partly because I do feel that youngsters behave like children in almost every area (apart from sex) for much longer than youngsters in previous generations - who often had to grow up pretty damn fast because of the hard nature of society they lived in.

I think 16 is about the right level.

[telecat]

Managed to start getting into clubs when I was about 17 in the late seventies. Plenty of girls I saw in them that I knew were under 16 as I knew them from when I went to school! And they threw themselves at the DJ's or doormen, (who lets face it were older than the DJ's). They knew how to look older, knew how to circumvent their parents restrictions and were clearly out for various levels of a "good" time. Looking historically at this plenty of "stars" of that era could well be in trouble. Many of those have honours and many of those had the public clamouring to hoist the honours in them. Funny how some despite having no other redeeming features seem to be left alone. Still everybody loves a witch hunt.

[Twincam16]

Guam said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

^^^^^^^^^
Completely agree!

Totally agree with that. If you're a teacher, your contract and enhanced CRB agreement includes a duty of care to ANY of your charges right up to 18 (in some colleges this is up to 19).

Don't see any reason why it should be different with any adult working with children or young people.

[Twincam16]

telecat said:

Managed to start getting into clubs when I was about 17 in the late seventies. Plenty of girls I saw in them that I knew were under 16 as I knew them from when I went to school! And they threw themselves at the DJ's or doormen, (who lets face it were older than the DJ's). They knew how to look older, knew how to circumvent their parents restrictions and were clearly out for various levels of a "good" time. Looking historically at this plenty of "stars" of that era could well be in trouble. Many of those have honours and many of those had the public clamouring to hoist the honours in them. Funny how some despite having no other redeeming features seem to be left alone. Still everybody loves a witch hunt.

I think there's a difference between letting someone into a club because someone flirted with you, and molesting them as 'payment' for having done so.

[Frik]

Twincam16 said:

Don't see any reason why it should be different with any adult working with children or young people.

It isn't. It's illegal for an adult to engage in sexual activity with a person under the age of 18 if they are in a position of trust.

[Eric Mc]

Or blackmailing charities to turn a blind eye whilst you get on with your molestation of the children supposedly in their care.

[Halb]

Eric Mc said:

I would suggest that the age of consent be INCREASED rather than decreased. Whilst physically, young people may be maturing earlier - in my opinion, mentally they are maturing much later. Many youngsters of 18 today behave and act as if they were 12.

Possibly something to do with the cult of the child? Allowing children all their indulgences with lax control?
In another thread the seemingly innocuous subject of tomato sauce has cropped up. Some think it's the done thing to restrict a child splattering it all over the plate, some think the child should be allowed to splatter at will with no control. A microcosm of how parents today allow their children to revel in their control and extend their selfish needs beyond teenage years?

[Eric Mc]

Perhaps - but giving a child "control" can have massive consequences for that child.

Wasn't it Bob Dylan who stated almost 50 years ago that "Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command"?

The cult of the freedom of youth goes back a long time.

I blame Elvis myself.

[Tyre Smoke]

Eric Mc said:

I blame Elvis myself.

Another star with a predilection for underage sex

[Eric Mc]

Tyre Smoke said:

Eric Mc said:

I blame Elvis myself.

Another star with a predilection for underage sex

Was it underage at the time though?

[cardigankid]

Bitofbully said:

cardigankid said:

It is patently clear that underage sex was rife in the pop music industry from the sixties onwards at least. John Peel has described girls of 13 and 14 throwing themselves at him in the States, where, correct me if I am wrong, the age of consent is 18. He was happy to oblige.

I hope you have some proof of that, rather than just spouting some vague allegation alluded to by the Daily Mail about someone who is no longer around to defend themselves.

Take a look at yesterday's Sunday Times. I am quoting John Peel himself.

[Bonefish Blues]

A debate that's been going on for centuries: http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/teaching-modules/230?secti...

And here for age of consent table: http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/teaching-modules/230?secti...

[Tyre Smoke]

Eric Mc said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Eric Mc said:

I blame Elvis myself.

Another star with a predilection for underage sex

Was it underage at the time though?

I thought it was generally accepted that Priscilla was 14 when she met him and there's also the line from Cohen's Walking in Memphis 'a pretty young thing, waiting for the King, down in the Jungle Room'. It's not exactly a secret!

[DJRC]

Its only *wrong* by the mores of todays society. A wider context of human history and it isnt...there is a certain aspect hardwired in. But as I said in the previous post, the legal position is the legal position, so it renders the moral aspect irrelevent. If its legal at 13,14, whatever in some States then its legal, if it isnt then its illegal and you are subject to the law being applied.

The moral position of arguing over a period of 3 yrs is a bit silly to me. Best to stick with the legal aspect.

[Eric Mc]

Tyre Smoke said:

Eric Mc said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Eric Mc said:

I blame Elvis myself.

Another star with a predilection for underage sex

Was it underage at the time though?

I thought it was generally accepted that Priscilla was 14 when she met him and there's also the line from Cohen's Walking in Memphis 'a pretty young thing, waiting for the King, down in the Jungle Room'. It's not exactly a secret!

But was it illegal?

The US has quite varying underage laws - with the Southern States (such as Tenessee) having generally younger consent ages than other parts of the country.
At the time Elvis and Priscilla were dating (early to mid 1960s) it may all have been perfectly legal. And, of course, dating on its own is not a crime.

The moral aspect of such behaviour is a different matter of course - but the laws on underage sex have varied wildly over time and locality.

[cardigankid]

Eric Mc said:

I would suggest that the age of consent be INCREASED rather than decreased. Whilst physically, young people may be maturing earlier - in my opinion, mentally they are maturing much later. Many youngsters of 18 today behave and act as if they were 12.

Maybe, but there is no way you are going to stop them, all you are going to do is create another huge swathe of people who are classified as sex offenders. Think back to when you were at school. Were there not boys and girls having sex before either of them were 16? I didn't but I received a few offers. I was too busy making Airfix kits! Quite a number were though (some of the girls were what you might call predatory) needless to say they are all criminals too. Can they now sue the school, or their parents, or somebody else?

I'm not saying it's right, but society is screwed up over this, some of it is justice, some of it is child protection, and some of it is just prudery.

[Halb]

Is Groak correct?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Bo...

[CommanderJameson]

Eric Mc said:

I would suggest that the age of consent be INCREASED rather than decreased. Whilst physically, young people may be maturing earlier - in my opinion, mentally they are maturing much later. Many youngsters of 18 today behave and act as if they were 12.

After all, it's SCIENCE FACT that making things which require no outlay, accessories or equipment (other than one's body) illegal is a sure-fire way of getting young people to stop doing them. We should enact such a law without delay! There are no possible unforeseen negative consequences whatsoever!

Also, I think your view of what constitutes appropriate behaviour for 18 and 12 years old may not be a widely held one.

[MoelyCrio]

When he died, comments on this catholic website were asking why he wasn't lauded more, particularly for his work with children.

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/20...

Perhaps there was a conspiracy of silence about his faith - but not for the reasons the conspiratorists had in mind....