Scottish Referendum / Independence
Discussion
jshell said:
eharding said:
MX7 said:
jshell said:
Most Scots don't really want independance.
Exactly. If there's a referendum, most will say No, so none of it matters anyway.Just imho..
Arguably, the same would happen eventually if there was a resounding 'Yes' vote, and subsequent secession - the SNP is a broad church, held together by a general ideal. Once the Independence question is answered one way or the other, fracture of the party would be inevitable.
Guam said:
jshell said:
Cameron has fecked up here I think. His meddling is more likely to be seen as English interference in Scottish affairs, something that will backfore on him. He really does not want to break up the Union.
What meddling though?Message to Scotland is simple Have your vote straight yes or no in or out.
I see nothing Meddlesome in that, there are two parties to any marriage, why should we have to accept Salmonds terms for staying in?
Personally speaking I am fed up with this, stay in and be like the rest of us, or exit if you dont like the current reality.
No special cases anymore, thats whats wrong with this country imho too much "Special pleading" BS
Cheers
It's all bks anyway though, fed by opportunistic politicians and the media. Most Scots don't give it much thought at all, only the vocal minority. The English/Scottish thing is seen North of the border as a bit of sport except by that already mentioned minority. Problem is they are being listened to.
OTOH, if Salmond got powers of taxation, he could mega-drop corp tax and watch companies flood in... perhaps.
eharding said:
jshell said:
eharding said:
MX7 said:
jshell said:
Most Scots don't really want independance.
Exactly. If there's a referendum, most will say No, so none of it matters anyway.Just imho..
Arguably, the same would happen eventually if there was a resounding 'Yes' vote, and subsequent secession - the SNP is a broad church, held together by a general ideal. Once the Independence question is answered one way or the other, fracture of the party would be inevitable.
Guam said:
Personally speaking I am fed up with this, stay in and be like the rest of us, or exit if you dont like the current reality.
I agree with this. I've spent half a century hearing about a desire for Scottish independence. Give them a vote and be done with it. Personally, I believe that a small country would be very vulnerable in today's economic climate. Especially with its natural home, Euroland, in utter disarray.But, I know nothing about anything. So, I don't care either way.
jshell said:
Guam said:
They cant seem to make their minds up though
Discussion on Radio 4 this morning was hilarious. Cameron wants to give them the option in about 18 months.
They are screaming foul it will be too soon? Well you wanted it you said now you dont want it in that timescale and you dont want a straight in or out question.
What Salmond really wants is complete Fiscal control, while still being in the pound how innovative, shame it hadnt been done before oh wait it has its called the Euro lol
No way Westminster will accept a fudge with a situation that could replicate the Euro within the UK.
Straight up and down yes or no vote is all thats required, so get the SNP to put up or shut up!
Lets get it done, wave them bye bye if thats what they want, or put this pathetic debate to bed once and for all! <all IMHO of course>
Cameron has fecked up here I think. His meddling is more likely to be seen as English interference in Scottish affairs, something that will backfore on him. He really does not want to break up the Union.Discussion on Radio 4 this morning was hilarious. Cameron wants to give them the option in about 18 months.
They are screaming foul it will be too soon? Well you wanted it you said now you dont want it in that timescale and you dont want a straight in or out question.
What Salmond really wants is complete Fiscal control, while still being in the pound how innovative, shame it hadnt been done before oh wait it has its called the Euro lol
No way Westminster will accept a fudge with a situation that could replicate the Euro within the UK.
Straight up and down yes or no vote is all thats required, so get the SNP to put up or shut up!
Lets get it done, wave them bye bye if thats what they want, or put this pathetic debate to bed once and for all! <all IMHO of course>
He's quite right to insist on full independence or nothing, even though in reality real independence for Scotland is not on the menu, the actual choice being remain dependent on Westminster or become dependent on Brussels.
jshell said:
It is meddling as it's not for him to determine the date. He's walking into a trap at worst, or just blundering about at best.
It's all bks anyway though, fed by opportunistic politicians and the media. Most Scots don't give it much thought at all, only the vocal minority. The English/Scottish thing is seen North of the border as a bit of sport except by that already mentioned minority. Problem is they are being listened to.
OTOH, if Salmond got powers of taxation, he could mega-drop corp tax and watch companies flood in... perhaps.
Along with the return of Scottish banks debt mountain try that on (your economy) for size. Truth is Scottish independence is like wanting Father Christmas to be true. Lovely idea, but just think of the mess it would cause.It's all bks anyway though, fed by opportunistic politicians and the media. Most Scots don't give it much thought at all, only the vocal minority. The English/Scottish thing is seen North of the border as a bit of sport except by that already mentioned minority. Problem is they are being listened to.
OTOH, if Salmond got powers of taxation, he could mega-drop corp tax and watch companies flood in... perhaps.
Guam said:
jshell said:
It is meddling as it's not for him to determine the date. He's walking into a trap at worst, or just blundering about at best.
It's all bks anyway though, fed by opportunistic politicians and the media. Most Scots don't give it much thought at all, only the vocal minority. The English/Scottish thing is seen North of the border as a bit of sport except by that already mentioned minority. Problem is they are being listened to.
OTOH, if Salmond got powers of taxation, he could mega-drop corp tax and watch companies flood in... perhaps.
Actually you are wrong on that as it is a revision to the Constitution of the UNITED KINGDOM Cameron is well within his rights to set the date. This goes back to exactly what I was inferring above. Right now like it or not Scotland is within the UnionIt's all bks anyway though, fed by opportunistic politicians and the media. Most Scots don't give it much thought at all, only the vocal minority. The English/Scottish thing is seen North of the border as a bit of sport except by that already mentioned minority. Problem is they are being listened to.
OTOH, if Salmond got powers of taxation, he could mega-drop corp tax and watch companies flood in... perhaps.
As it stands on matters constitutional it is Westministers remit, there are numbers of Scottish MPS in Parliament for just these eventualities.
Cameron should press ahead and get this done, if people in Scotland think he has "meddled" <ludicrous concept>, they get their own back by taking their ball away and LEAVE!
Fairly simple really no?
Cheers
One thing is sure, I wouldn't vote for the breakup and most other Scots wouldn't either.
Non-issue for me in many ways, I went back expat last may due to the shyte that's going on in the UK.
Northern Munkee said:
jshell said:
It is meddling as it's not for him to determine the date. He's walking into a trap at worst, or just blundering about at best.
It's all bks anyway though, fed by opportunistic politicians and the media. Most Scots don't give it much thought at all, only the vocal minority. The English/Scottish thing is seen North of the border as a bit of sport except by that already mentioned minority. Problem is they are being listened to.
OTOH, if Salmond got powers of taxation, he could mega-drop corp tax and watch companies flood in... perhaps.
Along with the return of Scottish banks debt mountain try that on (your economy) for size. Truth is Scottish independence is like wanting Father Christmas to be true. Lovely idea, but just think of the mess it would cause.It's all bks anyway though, fed by opportunistic politicians and the media. Most Scots don't give it much thought at all, only the vocal minority. The English/Scottish thing is seen North of the border as a bit of sport except by that already mentioned minority. Problem is they are being listened to.
OTOH, if Salmond got powers of taxation, he could mega-drop corp tax and watch companies flood in... perhaps.
jshell said:
It is meddling as it's not for him to determine the date. He's walking into a trap at worst, or just blundering about at best.
Meddling? Or setting rules? At the end of the day it should be up to the Enlish, Welsh and NI as to whether we want to offload Scotland. They are becoming a pain in the arse and like any whinging child if they think they are all grown up then set them free.It will be a shame if it happens but the Scots need to put up or shut up. Setting a date is the UK's right, Salmand seems to think that the rest of the UK is begging them not to leave.
fkit cheerio, no border access till you have got a Scottish Passport. 1 mth max working visa.
Have a nice day.
jshell said:
Surely it's for Salmond to set the date of the vote, then perhaps the date of any break-up is the constitutional issue? I really am not sure.
Why? This is an issue that affects the whole UK, not just Scotland so the decision must be made by the only parliament that covers the whole UK.Zaxxon said:
jshell said:
It is meddling as it's not for him to determine the date. He's walking into a trap at worst, or just blundering about at best.
Meddling? Or setting rules? At the end of the day it should be up to the Enlish, Welsh and NI as to whether we want to offload Scotland. They are becoming a pain in the arse and like any whinging child if they think they are all grown up then set them free.It will be a shame if it happens but the Scots need to put up or shut up. Setting a date is the UK's right, Salmand seems to think that the rest of the UK is begging them not to leave.
fkit cheerio, no border access till you have got a Scottish Passport. 1 mth max working visa.
Have a nice day.
I believe it is not up to CMD to set a date for a vote that takes place in only Scotland. >shrug<
jshell said:
If any Westminster govt wanted us gone, we'd be gone. You have to wonder why... I do.
I believe it is not up to CMD to set a date for a vote that takes place in only Scotland. >shrug<
Not as many peoplein Scotland and England want the Union broken up as Salmand thinks IMO. But only a vote would prove that. And as said by other posters it should not be a purely Scottish vote. It should be the UK.I believe it is not up to CMD to set a date for a vote that takes place in only Scotland. >shrug<
It affects the UK not just Scotland.
Also, what will happen to the Scottish RM /RN /Army and RAF personel? What if they don't want to join an even smaller force that would only be a token effort?
Edited by Zaxxon on Monday 9th January 14:55
Zaxxon said:
jshell said:
If any Westminster govt wanted us gone, we'd be gone. You have to wonder why... I do.
I believe it is not up to CMD to set a date for a vote that takes place in only Scotland. >shrug<
Not as many people want the Union broken up as Salmand thinks IMO. But only a vote would prove that. And as said by other posters it should not be a purely Scottish vote. It should be the UK.I believe it is not up to CMD to set a date for a vote that takes place in only Scotland. >shrug<
It affects the UK not just Scotland.
Blib said:
I agree with this. I've spent half a century hearing about a desire for Scottish independence. Give them a vote and be done with it. Personally, I believe that a small country would be very vulnerable in today's economic climate. Especially with its natural home, Euroland, in utter disarray.
But, I know nothing about anything. So, I don't care either way.
Any referendum should have a "shut up about it for twenty years afterwards" clause attached to it, whichever way it goes. But, I know nothing about anything. So, I don't care either way.
CMD is playing it well IMO.
Alex Salmond won the election on the back of a referendum idea. He now wants to mess about so he can get the vote to reflect a EURO style set up. Good play.
As far as the UK is concerned..that is not a good idea for the rest of us. So CMD is calling him out. you scots want a referendum? why wait till the end of another 2 years? have it now!
We all know that a referendum now will be a NO to independance...and there ends the story for ever! SNP done.
The pretext to this plan is that 'businesses are discussing how to make their investments in scotland and the longer this takes the more detrimental it is to scots...so lets get it done with now.' Alex will have some serious thinking to do to counter that argument...even if it is all made up.
The ball is in SNP's court. Game on!
Alex Salmond won the election on the back of a referendum idea. He now wants to mess about so he can get the vote to reflect a EURO style set up. Good play.
As far as the UK is concerned..that is not a good idea for the rest of us. So CMD is calling him out. you scots want a referendum? why wait till the end of another 2 years? have it now!
We all know that a referendum now will be a NO to independance...and there ends the story for ever! SNP done.
The pretext to this plan is that 'businesses are discussing how to make their investments in scotland and the longer this takes the more detrimental it is to scots...so lets get it done with now.' Alex will have some serious thinking to do to counter that argument...even if it is all made up.
The ball is in SNP's court. Game on!
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