Scottish Referendum / Independence

Scottish Referendum / Independence

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williamp

19,213 posts

272 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
as an Ebglishman as part of the UK, shouldnt we have a say too???

Northern Munkee

5,354 posts

199 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
stefd said:
Who gets to vote? i.e. Who is classified as Scottish? Do you have to be born there or currently living there?

My brother and sister were born in Glasgow but they're certainly not Scottish (moved to London when babies), I was educated there but born elsewhere and am probably more Scottish than them. Or my stepdad, definitely Scottish but hasn't lived there for 25 years, will he get a vote?

What about English people living in Scotland, will they get turfed out?
Aside reaffirming that all subjects of the union should be given a vote on the matter, clearly only current UK nationals residing in Scotland should be given a vote in the Scottish referendum, even if it would make no difference, to the resounding "no" to a simple yes/no on all the way out/in, it has nothing to do with ex-pats, or tax dodging actors, especially looking thru thistle tinted glasses longing for an imaginary olde country.

And where is Scotlands gaellic solidarity with the Welsh, Irish and Unionist communities. I mean is there any chance Scotland could take them with them off our hands as well?! Only joking...


NailedOn

3,114 posts

234 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
Even if the question is definitive, and the answer is Yes, the real question is money.
Why would F-UK (former UK, i.e. England, Wales & NI) agree to any sort of settlement that suited the Scots?
It is a zero sum game: Either the Scots get so many assets and so much budget, or F-UK does.
There will be a big blather about North Sea Oil, fishing and on it will rumble. Specious arguments will be made, lies told. Facts blurred.

Enough to make you want to put Derek & Clive Live on a loop....

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
On another thread a poster claimed that 2 out of every three working age Glawegians are not in gainful employment. I did ask for a link to evidence. But, it wasn't forthcoming.

Is it accurate? If so, how can a small country possibly survive economically with two thirds of the population of its most populous city unemployed?

ninja-lewis

4,226 posts

189 months

Monday 9th January 2012
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eharding said:
...except that having a referendum, and the independence movement being roundly trounced - not that I'm saying it would be - would be a body blow to the SNP. Ask how the Lib Dems feel about having electoral reform at Westminster kicked off the agenda for the foreseeable future by a referendum.
I don't think that would be true of the Scottish independence movement at all. To them, independence is far more of an emotional matter than a voting system among many other policies. It has to be understood that there exists a hardcore element in the independence movement who want independence whatever the cost - they don't care if Scotland will be worse off, only that Scotland is an "independent nation".

The concern has always been that in the event of "No" vote, the SNP will simply get up the next morning and start campaigning for another referendum - probably taking "x% voted Yes" as further support for independence rather than seeing that the vote was lost. We're not probably not even talking about a generation.

Crucially, if the vote doesn't go their way there will always be a vocal minority claiming "British Establishment Shenanigans".

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

203 months

Monday 9th January 2012
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Blib said:
On another thread a poster claimed that 2 out of every three working age Glawegians are not in gainful employment. I did ask for a link to evidence. But, it wasn't forthcoming.

Is it accurate? If so, how can a small country possibly survive economically with two thirds of the population of its most populous city unemployed?
The figures i have found have shown that if anything scotland as a whole has a slightly lower unemplyment rate then the UK overall

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
thinfourth2 said:
The figures i have found have shown that if anything scotland as a whole has a slightly lower unemplyment rate then the UK overall
Thanks for that. It just didn't seem possible.

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
The timescales get me.

300 years of injustice and oppression, but Salmond wants another 3-4 years of it before having a referendum on whether or not to leave. It's hardly the Boston Tea Party, is it?

Does anyone know what the last few elections would have looked like without the Scottish vote?

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

203 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
AJS- said:
Does anyone know what the last few elections would have looked like without the Scottish vote?
Well you would probably have a tory governemt after the last one but the 3 before the winner would be Tony Blair, Tony Blair and Tony Blair as english voters loved Tony Blair

But folk prefer to look outside the south east england for someone to blame


Oh and 1 tiny wee fact London has more Labour MPs then scotland has.

Edited by thinfourth2 on Monday 9th January 18:05

rich1231

17,331 posts

259 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
Blib said:
Thanks for that. It just didn't seem possible.
However huge numbers of the UK's public sector is in the North including Scotland. That won't take long to fix.

smegmore

3,091 posts

175 months

Monday 9th January 2012
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TankRizzo said:
Paging ViperPict, your thread is here again!
Noooo, don't wake him up FFS, he'll be sleeping the Lanny off so he'll be in a bit of strop...hehe

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Monday 9th January 2012
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Guam said:
Nah we only need to repair the existing one smile

We can make everything North of Hadrians Wall a free fire zone smile
I used to live in Northumberland, north of the wall but still in England. Make it a big duty free lawless badlands and I might move back there, and get a beaten up old pick up truck with a machine gun on the back. Then I'll grow a beard and drive around drunk, shooting at people coming from either side.

Gets my vote!

MX7

7,902 posts

173 months

Monday 9th January 2012
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Blib said:
On another thread a poster claimed that 2 out of every three working age Glawegians are not in gainful employment. I did ask for a link to evidence. But, it wasn't forthcoming.

Is it accurate? If so, how can a small country possibly survive economically with two thirds of the population of its most populous city unemployed?
The correlation between unemployment and poverty is well established. Nearly 30 % of Glasgow’s working age population, or 110,000 people, are unemployed, a rate’s that’s 50% higher than that of the rest of Scotland or the UK.

30% is still worrying though.

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
Oh god, no one tell Plaid Cymru. The sodding assembly arrived due to the voters not being arsed to turn out. This lot get wind of this and there will be no stopping them chomping at the bit. They will turn the Severn bridge into a draw bridge.

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Monday 9th January 2012
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MX7 said:
It's such a Lib Dem thing to say, pointing out the correlation between unemployment and poverty. No work = no money in any normal person's language.

By the same token how many people from the rest of Scotland and elsewhere move and find work in Glasgow? Genuine question, I've never spent any real time in Glasgow, but it's a big city and I suspect it has a fair few enterprising individuals who are doing just fine, and that 30% represents a cultural phenomenon of post industrial working class mostly white men who choose not to work because there's benefits available and nothing more fun or rewarding to do in their minds than drugs and drink.


thinfourth2

32,414 posts

203 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
MX7 said:
Blib said:
On another thread a poster claimed that 2 out of every three working age Glawegians are not in gainful employment. I did ask for a link to evidence. But, it wasn't forthcoming.

Is it accurate? If so, how can a small country possibly survive economically with two thirds of the population of its most populous city unemployed?
The correlation between unemployment and poverty is well established. Nearly 30 % of Glasgow’s working age population, or 110,000 people, are unemployed, a rate’s that’s 50% higher than that of the rest of Scotland or the UK.

30% is still worrying though.
While there are areas in London which have higher unemployment then Glasgow

How will london cope without scotland?

Or is taking one example a bad way to paint a picture of all of london/scotland

swamp

991 posts

188 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
I imagine the French would be rather pleased if Scotland became independent.

MX7

7,902 posts

173 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
thinfourth2 said:
While there are areas in London which have higher unemployment then Glasgow

How will london cope without scotland?

Or is taking one example a bad way to paint a picture of all of london/scotland
I don't know. I was simply answering Blib's question.

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
AJS- said:
I used to live in Northumberland, north of the wall but still in England. Make it a big duty free lawless badlands and I might move back there, and get a beaten up old pick up truck with a machine gun on the back. Then I'll grow a beard and drive around drunk, shooting at people coming from either side.

Gets my vote!
Worked for the Border Reevers smile
Actually it still does, come to think of it.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Monday 9th January 2012
quotequote all
gtdc said:
The Scottish people who are for it say that Scotland will be financially better off. Others say that Scotland costs England money. Which is actually true?
Times were when it might have been significantly financially advantageous to Scotland to go it alone, just when the oil was coming out of the sea, but those days are long gone.

The days of massive incomes from the tourist trade are about the same era and the recent fuss with the release of the bloke who didn't put the bomb on board PanAm 103 can't have helped. Nor can the state of the American dollar.

I'm not sure what the Scots can produce that will make them stand out amongst the other small countries. The scenery is spectacular but it should be remembered that there are many countries with similar spectacles. Many of these have somewhat different weather. Lots don’t have midges - the midges! If only their energy could be harnessed. It would provide a greater return than the oil ever would.

It strikes me as veering towards stupidity not to have the full chapter and verse of the financial side. If they want to leave then it should be on terms that are advantageous. I’d want to know every damn penny.

If someone has worked it out then even so it is still not a forgone conclusion for going for it. Scotland is not without friends but the biggest one is England/Wales. It is, at the very least, dependable. You need to keep those friends who have proved themselves. The problem is that Scotland would be seen as a competitor.

The oil won't last forever.
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