Rape Gang - How'd they get away with it for so long?

[Muntu]

Mermaid said:

Not expecting anything.

Expect something along the lines of "Why should we, you infidels don't..."

[Countdown]

Jessicus said:

I think that there are, proportionally and based around certain geographic areas, more Asian rape gangs than there are white rape gangs. Not sex offenders in general - rape gangs where children between 12 and 16 are passed around and abused. Constantly for extended periods of time.

I agree with this. What surprises me is the level of ire this particular type of sex offence draws from certain posters on here. I'm not trying to diminish the seriousness of these case; in my opinion they're extremely vile and I'd be more than happy with the perpetrators being castrated. But we don't seem to focus on the "ethnic" origin of other groups involved in this paedophilia.

Jessicus said:

you seem to be constantly looking for ways to minimise the damage and harm that these Pakistani muslim pedo rape gangs do to young children. You hover on the edge of being an apologist for them by constant refrains to "But white people do this too! - Why are you picking on the Muslims?"

Because, as I keep repeating, the fact that they're nominally of Pakistani origin or muslims is irrelevant.

Jessicus said:

Now they are coming under scrutiny, and other Muslims don't seem to like it.

Feel free to give me an example where any muslims have said they don't like the scrutiny. As I posted earlier I positively welcome as much police/social services involvement as possible in order to eradicate these vermin. But I'd feel that way about any crime of this nature.Whereas it seems that other posters seem to think THIS is worse because Pakistanis/muslims were involved in this.

Jessicus said:

It seems like protect the religion

And, for the umpteenth time, it's got fk all to do with religion. As posted umpteen times previously the religion forbids extra-marital sex, and the use of alcohol and drugs. These perverts did it for sexual gratification, and the only females they could find were vulnerable kids from care homes.

[Countdown]

Mermaid said:

I'd like to hear of steps the Pakistani community have taken to find out if there are more of these vermin in their midst. Not expecting anything.

What would you recommend?

If you could give me some examples of what the white community has done in similar situations I'd be more than happy to try and implement it locally.

[Mr_B]

Mermaid said:

I'd like to hear of steps the Pakistani community have taken to find out if there are more of these vermin in their midst. Not expecting anything.

Not sure what you are expecting here, a Pakistani Womens Guild that acts like a Monty Pythonesque Spanish Inquisistion ? I wouldn't know where to start if my town was reported as being the rape gang capital of the south east. What are they meant to do exactly ? I'm sure if you asked them, they would denounce it.
For me these cases pose the questions of why it seems like targeting of non muslims, non Pakistani girls, and is it cultural things that make this easier such as their view of women in general and what has alreay been called white trash girls. Now that may or may not be a factor, but I think it more than fair and right to ask it.

[Countdown]

Mr_B said:

For me these cases pose the questions of why it seems like targeting of non muslims, non Pakistani girls, and is it cultural things that make this easier such as their view of women in general and what has alreay been called white trash girls. Now that may or may not be a factor, but I think it more than fair and right to ask it.

My guess is that because these are the only girls they could get. You wouldnt get most white/asian/black girls fromstable home lives hanging around taxi bases/takeaways/wherever. These girls don't seem to have had anybody checking up on where they were or who they were with. That's what made them the most vulnerable.

[Jessicus]

Countdown said:

Because, as I keep repeating, the fact that they're nominally of Pakistani origin or muslims is irrelevant.

But it's not irrelevant! It is disproportionally gangs of Pakistani Muslims who are preying on young white girls, aged between 12 and 15, whom they consider to be "slags" and "wes" (their words). They then pass these children around, usually using a takeaway or a taxi premises as a base, between their group.

It's completely relevant to target individuals who are in a position to commit a crime to scrutiny. Pakistani Muslims don't like scrutiny? Stop raping and gang raping young girls.

Countdown said:

And, for the umpteenth time, it's got fk all to do with religion. As posted umpteen times previously the religion forbids extra-marital sex, and the use of alcohol and drugs. These perverts did it for sexual gratification, and the only females they could find were vulnerable kids from care homes.

Then why do they try to hide behind their religion when caught - claiming that "the infidels" taught their children to entrap them? And why do you, as an intelligent person, ignore that it IS predominantly a problem with Pakistani Muslims, therefore it IS a problem with the religion, and partially at least it's views about other humans who don't happen to follow your views?

Seeing non-muslim people (especially females) as sub-human and effectively disposable is surely part of the problem.

Edited by Jessicus on Saturday 6th October 17:29

[Mr_B]

Countdown said:

My guess is that because these are the only girls they could get. You wouldnt get most white/asian/black girls fromstable home lives hanging around taxi bases/takeaways/wherever. These girls don't seem to have had anybody checking up on where they were or who they were with. That's what made them the most vulnerable.

There are still factors which may come into play. Had it not been white girls 'available' to them, would they otherwise have done this ? Would they have been able to operate in the same way if they were hanging around schools picking up young Pakistani girls that were vulnerable, such as if they had a little gang of them and her pimpimg them out in their local community, would it have been the same ?
You can say what proof have you got, but my feeling is it was made easier in their mind to pick on someone who they saw inferior and worthless to them. Their actions don't seem to be too far removed from straight forward racism. I'd like to think we are all the same, but I'm sorry to say there is a mismatch in how people from all around the world view each other based on culture and religion.

[Mermaid]

Countdown said:

Mermaid said:

I'd like to hear of steps the Pakistani community have taken to find out if there are more of these vermin in their midst. Not expecting anything.

What would you recommend?

If you could give me some examples of what the white community has done in similar situations I'd be more than happy to try and implement it locally.

The white community are the natives here, the Pakistani community are mostly immigrants and need to be whiter than white. For their bad reputation also spills over to other minorities. It seems your community does not think it is problem that justifies serious head scratching. IMO self-policing is necessary. Can not doing anything lead to violence against minorities?

Edited by Mermaid on Saturday 6th October 17:44

[Countdown]

Jessicus said:

Countdown said:

Because, as I keep repeating, the fact that they're nominally of Pakistani origin or muslims is irrelevant.

But it's not irrelevant! It is disproportionally gangs of Pakistani Muslims who are preying on young white girls, aged between 12 and 15, whom they consider to be "slags" and "wes" (their words).

It's Pakistani muslims preying on ANY girls they can get hold of. As I mentioned above the only reason these girls were victims is because they were the most vulnerable.

Jessicus said:

It's completely relevant to target individuals who are in a position to commit a crime to scrutiny. Pakistani Muslims don't like scrutiny?

Happy for as much scrutiny as possible, and I think most British muslims would welcome that. In fact I don't recall any muslims complaining about the scrutiny. I would actually go further and suggest there is more publication of who these scum were, and where they lived (rather than a generic "from Rochdale"). Public humiliation might be an effective deterrent. It could be argued that it's not fair to effectively victimise their families but the counter-argument would be that this this behaviour has done far more damage to community relations than the BNP ever did and the sooner its exterminated, the better.

Jessicus said:

Then why do they try to hide behind their religion when caught - claiming that "the infidels" taught their children to entrap them? And why do you, as an intelligent person, ignore that it IS predominantly a problem with Pakistani Muslims, therefore it IS a problem with the religion,

This is the bit I don't understand - the linking with religion. People of all backgrounds are involved in crime, whether it's drugs, paedophilia, or armed robbery. It's got sod all to do with their religion. As I keep mentioning Islam specifically forbids alcohol and extra marital sex, two of the factors involved in these crimes. How on the one hand are these people doing it for religious reasons when what they are doing is so CONTRARY to their religion ?

Jessicus said:

and partially at least it's views about other humans who don't happen to follow your views?

Seeing non-muslim people (especially females) as sub-human and effectively disposable is surely part of the problem.

At the risk of stating the obvious, we don't see non-muslims (of any gender) as "subhuman". If you ignore the ridiculousness of the statement and consider the practicality - we live in a society where the majority are non-muslims, where most of our friends at school were non-muslims, and where most of the people we work with are non-muslims.

[Countdown]

Mermaid said:

Countdown said:

Mermaid said:

I'd like to hear of steps the Pakistani community have taken to find out if there are more of these vermin in their midst. Not expecting anything.

What would you recommend?

If you could give me some examples of what the white community has done in similar situations I'd be more than happy to try and implement it locally.

The white community are the natives here, the Pakistani community are mostly immigrants and need to be whiter than white. For their bad reputation also spills over to other minorities. It seems your community does not think it is problem that justifies serious head scratching. IMO self-policing is necessary. Can not doing anything lead to violence against minorities?

Edited by Mermaid on Saturday 6th October 17:44

Again - what would you want "us" to do? I'm genuinely open to suggestions.

[Countdown]

Mr_B said:

There are still factors which may come into play. Had it not been white girls 'available' to them, would they otherwise have done this ? Would they have been able to operate in the same way if they were hanging around schools picking up young Pakistani girls that were vulnerable, such as if they had a little gang of them and her pimpimg them out in their local community, would it have been the same ?
You can say what proof have you got, but my feeling is it was made easier in their mind to pick on someone who they saw inferior and worthless to them. Their actions don't seem to be too far removed from straight forward racism. I'd like to think we are all the same, but I'm sorry to say there is a mismatch in how people from all around the world view each other based on culture and religion.

You may well be right - ie it's quite possible that they used the "white girls are worthless" to justify (to themselves) what they were doing. But, to a degree, all criminals will internally justify their crime. Its probably no different to a rapist thinking that his victim was "asking for it" or a paedophile using the sexualisation of pre-pubescent girls as justification/vindication.

[RedTrident]

Mermaid said:

The white community are the natives here, the Pakistani community are mostly immigrants and need to be whiter than white.

Edited by Mermaid on Saturday 6th October 17:44

Can I ask why?

[Jessicus]

Countdown said:

You may well be right - ie it's quite possible that they used the "white girls are worthless" to justify (to themselves) what they were doing. But, to a degree, all criminals will internally justify their crime. Its probably no different to a rapist thinking that his victim was "asking for it" or a paedophile using the sexualisation of pre-pubescent girls as justification/vindication.

Again, you're trying to provide a justification for these beasts, rather than condemnation.

We're probably quite close in thinking to do with these criminals, but your stubborn refusal to acknowledge that there is a particular problem with Pakistani Muslims and their approach to non-Muslims is really quite strange.

Isn't it true that non-muslims (especially Christians) in Islamic countries, such as Pakistan, have less legal rights than Muslims? Isn't that demonstrating that non-muslims are worth less than a muslim?

Isn't that what's taught in Madrassas across this country? That Muslims are worth more than non-muslims?

[Justayellowbadge]

Countdown said:

Again - what would you want "us" to do? I'm genuinely open to suggestions.

Accept that the problem exists.

[Countdown]

Justayellowbadge said:

Countdown said:

Again - what would you want "us" to do? I'm genuinely open to suggestions.

Accept that the problem exists.

More than happy to do so. The evidence is there for all to see. And then?

[Countdown]

Jessicus said:

Again, you're trying to provide a justification for these beasts, rather than condemnation.

I've recommended castration for the perpetrators and public humiliation for their "nearest and dearest" But you don't think that's condemnation?

With regards to my response to Mr_B, trying to suggest why this happened specifically to young white girls in care is not justification for it happening.

Jessicus said:

We're probably quite close in thinking to do with these criminals, but your stubborn refusal to acknowledge that there is a particular problem with Pakistani Muslims and their approach to non-Muslims is really quite strange.

Your fixation that this particular crime is a result of the attitudes of muslims to non-muslims is quite strange. I've lost count of the number of times I've explained that things such as alcohol, drugs, and extra-marital sex are severely frowned upon in Islam. But you seem absolutely determined to prove a causal link.

I gave a link earlier where there was a group of predominantly white men who were involved in this type of crime. Are they closet muslims?

[Lost_BMW]

Countdown said:

Jessicus said:

Again, you're trying to provide a justification for these beasts, rather than condemnation.

I've recommended castration for the perpetrators and public humiliation for their "nearest and dearest" But you don't think that's condemnation?

Softie!

[Jessicus]

Countdown said:

Jessicus said:

Again, you're trying to provide a justification for these beasts, rather than condemnation.

I've recommended castration for the perpetrators and public humiliation for their "nearest and dearest" But you don't think that's condemnation?

With regards to my response to Mr_B, trying to suggest why this happened specifically to young white girls in care is not justification for it happening.

Jessicus said:

We're probably quite close in thinking to do with these criminals, but your stubborn refusal to acknowledge that there is a particular problem with Pakistani Muslims and their approach to non-Muslims is really quite strange.

Your fixation that this particular crime is a result of the attitudes of muslims to non-muslims is quite strange. I've lost count of the number of times I've explained that things such as alcohol, drugs, and extra-marital sex are severely frowned upon in Islam. But you seem absolutely determined to prove a causal link.

I gave a link earlier where there was a group of predominantly white men who were involved in this type of crime. Are they closet muslims?

I'm starting to reassess my opinion of your intelligence.

You appear to be wilfully refusing to acknowledge the fact that the majority of these rape gangs were comprised of Pakistani Muslims. Is it the case that you don't believe that they were Pakistani Muslims?

It's how the men involved reference THEMSELVES.

These groups of men specifically target young, vulnerable white girls, and systematically abuse them including sexual abuse and rape over a period of months or years.

When caught, they reference the girls as "slags, wes and prostitutes" despite the fact that they are mostly 12-15 years old. They claim that "infidels teach their daughters about sex" - note the word infidels.

Obviously, there is no direct link between rape gangs and muslims. However there are a disproportionate number of Pakistani Muslims who have been convicted of child sex offenses, based upon their overall numbers in the UK

The question is why. Several theories have been put forward, to do with everything from availability in their places of work, to the fact that they are unable to deal with women as equals and radical influences from their religion about subjugating other races.

Yes, the officials can arrest those stupid enough to commit the crime and be caught, however if there is a common link that could be found and dealt with, wouldn't that be a good idea?

And you don't get that by denying the problem. A crime carried out disproportionally by a particular section of society.

[Countdown]

Jessicus said:

I'm starting to reassess my opinion of your intelligence.

If you must

Jessicus said:

You appear to be wilfully refusing to acknowledge the fact that the majority of these rape gangs were comprised of Pakistani Muslims. Is it the case that you don't believe that they were Pakistani Muslims?

I'm starting to reassess your reading skills. Or please point me to where I have suggested these grooming gangs weren't nominally muslim or of Pakistani origin.

Jessicus said:

These groups of men specifically target young, vulnerable white girls, and systematically abuse them including sexual abuse and rape over a period of months or years.

I know. Beacuse young vulnerable girls are their easiest prey.

Jessicus said:

They claim that "infidels teach their daughters about sex" - note the word infidels.

I've not read that previously. Do you have any links for it?

Jessicus said:

Obviously, there is no direct link between rape gangs and muslims. However there are a disproportionate number of Pakistani Muslims who have been convicted of child sex offenses, based upon their overall numbers in the UK

I think overrepresentation is specifically in this particular type of offence (rather than child sex offences in general). The "overall" representation of asian child offenders is broadly in proportion to the number of asians in the general population.

Jessicus said:

And you don't get that by denying the problem. A crime carried out disproportionally by a particular section of society.

I'm not denying the problem (ie asian men grooming underage girls). What Im refuting is the suggestion that this has anything to do with Islam.

[hifihigh]

Jessicus said:

I'm starting to reassess my opinion of your intelligence.

You appear to be wilfully refusing to acknowledge the fact that the majority of these rape gangs were comprised of Pakistani Muslims. Is it the case that you don't believe that they were Pakistani Muslims?
[quote] plenty of these rape gangs exist,but only a certain amount gets reported on.[quote/}
It's how the men involved reference THEMSELVES.

These groups of men specifically target young, vulnerable white girls, and systematically abuse them including sexual abuse and rape over a period of months or years.
[Why do you pick on their skin colour. They are vulnerable women no matter how you frame it.

When caught, they reference the girls as "slags, wes and prostitutes" despite the fact that they are mostly 12-15 years old. They claim that "infidels teach their daughters about sex" - note the word infidels.

Obviously, there is no direct link between rape gangs and muslims. However there are a disproportionate number of Pakistani Muslims who have been convicted of child sex offenses, based upon their overall numbers in the UK

The question is why. Several theories have been put forward, to do with everything from availability in their places of work, to the fact that they are unable to deal with women as equals and radical influences from their religion about subjugating other races.

Yes, the officials can arrest those stupid enough to commit the crime and be caught, however if there is a common link that could be found and dealt with, wouldn't that be a good idea?

And you don't get that by denying the problem. A crime carried out disproportionally by a particular section of society.