Smart meters..

[turbobloke]

Cut through the hype and these devices are there to manage 'brownouts' i.e. rationing of power due to the folly of our environ mental and energy policies and the resulting dire energy security with lack of adequate supply.

[thinfourth2]

Sod it i'll be fitting a nice generator as well as a wind turbine then we can be completely off grid

We are already on our own water and sewage as well as oil fired heating

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

The smart meter transmitter is identical to a mobile phone's transmitter. They use the bog standard Vodaphone network.
Smart meters are not capable of cutting off your supply - there is no switch gear inside them at all - they simply use a 'shunt' just like any digital meter - the only difference is that they are capable of sending the meter reading (kWh) to the supplier via the mobile phone network. They don't, and are not capable of sending any other data.

To put things into perspective about transmitter powers. A typical mobile phone's transmitter power output is 500 milliwatts (0.5 watts). A typical mobile phone mast transmits at maximum 100 watts.
The analogue TV transmitter at Crystal Palace was 1 megawatt, or one million watts (1,000,000 watts) - with this amount of ERP in the area, one would expect the surrounding area to look like Chernobyl (pripyat) by now...!

[Blue Oval84]

Dr Doofenshmirtz said:

Smart meters are not capable of cutting off your supply -

Oh but they are, the ones that most suppliers are signing off can be switched to Prepayment mode remotely, fail to top it up and the supply will disconnect. The major advantage is that bad debt can be managed more robustly than with the present system of having to exchange the meter.

[tank slapper]

Mr GrimNasty said:

There's plenty of research that confirms such things are harmful. Some countries won't allow WiFi in schools for example. People would have laughed years ago if you'd said living under pylons or near power cables would give you cancer - it is now accepted fact and devalues affected houses.

If there is plenty of research (and I assume you mean proper research, not the kind done by advocacy goups that is solely intended to reinforce their point), then you should be able to link some. I'd be interested in reading it.

[XDA]

Strangely Brown said:

XDA said:

I save money as my fuel bills are no longer estimated but use the actual meter readings. I don't need to wait in for someone to come and read my meter either, it's all automatically sent to my supplier.

I don't have a smart meter and my bills are always estimated. When they arrive, I read the meter, post the readings online and receive an amended bill. Easy. No monthly direct debit that they change on a whim and then I end up "in credit" or any other such nonsense. I just use the utility and they send me a bill for what I have used each quarter. Easy.

Smart meters do not save you money. Using less electricity saves you money and you don't need a smart meter to do that.

I don't even need to bother submitting any readings, the meter sends them straight to my supplier.

Therefore, there's no issues with incorrect meter readings, I don't get over charged and I save money.

I also haven't got a monthly direct debit setup either. I receive a bill as usual every quarter.

[Fish]

Blue Oval84 said:

Oh but they are, the ones that most suppliers are signing off can be switched to Prepayment mode remotely, fail to top it up and the supply will disconnect. The major advantage is that bad debt can be managed more robustly than with the present system of having to exchange the meter.

Sorry Dr is right, Smart meters have no physical way of cutting off your power. You are confusing them with prepayment card meters which do have contactors in them and can cut the power. Prepayment meters are generally disliked by the power companies because they don't make much money on them and they are forced to have them available fro some people to meet govt targets.

I have a smart meter and it is great, it reads on the 16th month and I pay for what I've used on the 30th by DD. It cannot cut me off or in anyway manage my power usage. It can be set up for more complicated tarrifs ie peak and off peak.

[turbobloke]

BRITISH GAS PR_SMART_PART3_ELEC FINAL V4.0 2010 03 29

PRODUCT REQUIREMENTS FOR SMART METERING SYSTEMS
PART 3: ELECTRICITY METERS

6. GENERAL REQUIREMENTS
6.6 Electricity meters shall support interruption of the electricity supply using an internal shut-off mechanism

10. INTERRUPT AND RESTORE CAPABILITY
10.1 This section shall be read in conjunction with Part 1: General System Architecture: Interrupt and Restore Capability.
10.2 An electricity meter shall be capable of remote interrupt of the consumer’s electricity supply and provide for the remote enabling of the electricity supply through the use of a contactor or in-line switch

12. LOAD MANAGEMENT
12.1 Peak Load Management
12.1.1 The electricity meter shall be capable of limiting electricity to the consumer in both credit and prepayment/PAYG modes.
12.1.2 The electricity meter shall provide a facility to limit total load to a configurable current rating above which the supply to the consumer shall be interrupted
12.1.3 The load limit should be configurable to be active for times of day, days of week, months of year, and special days.
12.1.4 The load limit functionality can be used as a rule within the meter instead of disconnection.


Did people really believe the fluffy side was all there is to this?

Brownouts, targeted blackouts, see above or if you prefer just sit back, wait and see.

[Deva Link]

Fish said:

Sorry Dr is right, Smart meters have no physical way of cutting off your power.

Of course they can - they have a 100A relay in them. Here's a typical UK one: http://www.elstermetering.com/en/1141.html

Fish said:

I have a smart meter

What make of meter have you got?

[turbobloke]

BRITISH GAS PR_SMART_PART2_GAS V4.0 2010 03 29

PRODUCT REQUIREMENTS FOR SMART METERING SYSTEMS
PART 2: GAS METERS

SECTION 6 GENERAL REQUIREMENTS
6.4 The gas meter shall support interruption of the gas supply using an internal shut-off mechanism

10. INTERRUPT AND RESTORE CAPABILITY
10.1 This section shall be read in conjunction with Part 1: General System Architecture: Interrupt and Restore Capability.
10.2 A gas meter shall be capable of remote interruption of the consumer’s gas supply and provide for the remote enabling of the gas supply through the use of a valve

etc

Cmon wake up people.

[thinfourth2]

Mmmm CHPs

http://www.kva-diesel.dk/upload/produktblad_energ6...

I wonder what the pay back time is?

[dickymint]

I'm surprised they're not fitted with CCTV.

[thinfourth2]

dickymint said:

I'm surprised they're not fitted with CCTV.

Anti-Tampering features
· Integrated connect / disconnect relay up to 100A
· Communication modules available (GSM/GPRS, PLC, ...)
· Log file for registration of all events with time and date stamps

They don't need it

[turbobloke]

The really hilarious thing is that docs and specs don't mention cut off. Do a search on those words and it usually comes up blank.

Try 'load limiting' (brownout) and 'remote interrupt' (cut off) and you will be getting warm, or if we're playing EU DECC sponsored climate bullst bingo, cold and dark.

Buy Damart and candles.

[thinfourth2]

turbobloke said:

Buy Damart and candles.

CHPs please

[dickymint]

turbobloke said:

BRITISH GAS PR_SMART_PART2_GAS V4.0 2010 03 29

PRODUCT REQUIREMENTS FOR SMART METERING SYSTEMS
PART 2: GAS METERS

SECTION 6 GENERAL REQUIREMENTS
6.4 The gas meter shall support interruption of the gas supply using an internal shut-off mechanism

10. INTERRUPT AND RESTORE CAPABILITY
10.1 This section shall be read in conjunction with Part 1: General System Architecture: Interrupt and Restore Capability.
10.2 A gas meter shall be capable of remote interruption of the consumer’s gas supply and provide for the remote enabling of the gas supply through the use of a valve

etc

Cmon wake up people.

Hope they don't try it with gas. Unless they intend to send the entire population on a Gas Safe course. Dangerous business purging a gas line!

[turbobloke]

dickymint said:

Hope they don't try it with gas. Unless they intend to send the entire population on a Gas Safe course. Dangerous business purging a gas line!

Interesting times! What do you make of this...is it adequate? The most purging (gas!) I've done is a small lab line.

5. SAFETY
5.1 General requirements
5.1.1 Where a consumer’s gas supply has been interrupted for any reason, any faults within the smart metering system shall not cause the restoration of the supply.
Note 1: Methods of interrupting the consumer’s supply are described in section 9.5.7; they are referred to as “shut‐off” mechanisms throughout this document.
5.1.2 Gas meters shall not be capable of restoring consumer’s supply following an interruption by the meter without the local intervention of the consumer
5.1.3 Where a loss of supply has occurred for reasons outside of the control of the gas meter (e.g. network failure) the meter shall retain the setting of the shut‐off device prior to the supply loss, when the supply is restored.
5.2 Intrinsic safety requirements
5.2.1 Gas meters shall meet, as a minimum, the requirements for use in a hazardous area classification zone 2 (ATEX category 3) as defined in BS EN 60079−10‐1.

[thinfourth2]

dickymint said:

Dangerous business purging a gas line!

No it isn't

A small gas line in the home will have an internal volume of close to feck-all.

So for it to explode you need

1 A method for air to replace 90 to 95% of the gas in the line
2 An ignition source in the line which is unlikely as the pipe is copper and earthed so zero chance of a spark.

And even if it does explode then the internal volume is so small it won't do jack. Even if it does explode while open to the mains the gas main is too rich for the gas to explode.


Before you ask i'm not gas safe qualified so i am not legally allowed to work on the gas boiler in your house however i am qualified to work on gas boilers bigger then your house as i used to be the cargo engineer/2nd engineer on gas tankers

[Deva Link]

thinfourth2 said:

Mmmm CHPs

http://www.kva-diesel.dk/upload/produktblad_energ6...

I wonder what the pay back time is?

2.3 litres of diesel an hour strikes me as quite a lot - even without duty, that's going to cost £1.50ish.

FIAT had a system called TOTEM in the mid 80's which used a small petrol engine running on gas and that produced 15KW of electricity and some heat (can't remember how much, but IIRC it was pitched at small hotel and old peoples homes etc, so presumeably quite a bit).

[thinfourth2]

Deva Link said:

2.3 litres of diesel an hour strikes me as quite a lot - even without duty, that's going to cost £1.50ish.

FIAT had a system called TOTEM in the mid 80's which used a small petrol engine running on gas and that produced 15KW of electricity and some heat (can't remember how much, but IIRC it was pitched at small hotel and old peoples homes etc, so presumeably quite a bit).

Yeah but you get 20Kw out of it

Combine it with a big battery bank and a heat store and it wouldn't be running 24/7

I'm seriously tempted if they start to get silly with energy supply to go off grid and say fk em

We have enough wind here to install a medium wind turbine, a back-up generator and solar/solid fuel heating