Employers might not be able to advertise "graduate" jobs

[lazystudent]

More PC nonsense or something that's been crying out to happen for ages?
Link here

The Telegraph said:

The Supreme Court on Wednesday said an older employee was indirectly discriminated against on the grounds of age when he was denied access to a new top salary band at work, because he did not have a law degree.

The judgment ruled that Terence Homer, an ex-police officer who worked as an adviser on the Policy National Legal Database, was at a disadvantage in comparison with younger workers because he did not have time to complete a law degree before his retirement date, meaning he could never achieve the promotion.

Employment lawyers said the ruling would have wide implications for private sector workers and how companies went about recruiting and promoting staff in future.

"Employers will have to be cautious approach to requiring job applicants to have a degree, or failing to promote employees without a degree," said Chris Wellham, employment lawyer at Hogan Lovells law firm.

"It will question whether high levels of experience is an acceptable substitute to having a degree," Mr Wellham said.

Many employers advertise jobs for candidates with degrees, with some industries, such as engineering, manufacturing and law, requiring degrees as a minimum. It is often harder for older workers with comparable experience to compete for jobs as a result.

The Homer case could revolutionise job adverts by outlawing the terms "graduate" or "degree-qualified", in much the same way that "enthusiastic" and "energetic" are words that are rarely used by employers for fear of being accused of looking for only younger staff.

Since 2006, age discrimination rules have prevented employers from specifying the number of years' experience required for roles because it could discriminate against younger workers.

The Homer judgment was made alongside the long-awaited Seldon case at the Supreme Court on Wednesday, which ruled it would be possible for employers to justify forced retirement of older workers so long as they could prove it was in the "public interest".

[MrAdaam]

I think not having a degree when you get to certain levels within employment may be a little silly. Perhaps a degree should be seen as a 'gateway' towards starting higher up the ladder, rather than a must if you are to reach those levels?

Experience, I feel, is much more important.

I don't have a degree, either. I am 20. (if it makes any difference!)

[Jasandjules]

Sorry I don't understand the problem here, if someone was capable of being a police officer without a degree then why would he need a degree for promotion?

[voyds9]

Would you prefer your doctor to have a degree or plenty of experience.

Would your thoughts change if he was getting the experience on you.

[Kermit power]

On the face of it, that's bloody ridiculous! What next? No discriminating against people without driving licences when advertising for a chauffeur?

[bob1179]

In certain sectors the correct education is a must.

I think it's just another example of the UK pandering to the lowest common denominator.

PC nonsense.

[heppers75]

If you want another take on this kind of issue.

6 weeks ago I recruited a guy into a new business I have started, he was a 40 something chap from a larger corporate background and I had asked in interview on a number of occasions in interview was he happy to work in a dynamic startup, chip in all over the shop and bring his experience and help the team with his experience while helping me using mine to grow this business.

Yesterday he quit and said it was too fast paced and he couldn't cope essentially and he was desperate to get back to the safety net of big corporate.

I spoke to the recruitment guy who I had paid £6k to as a fee! He will backfill FoC but I had to say ... Mark I want a Software BA with customer facing experience who is 30 something, with decent relevant experience and has a young and dynamic outlook and is willing to just muck in, he said well I can't say any of that but leave it with me to translate etc... Madness as that is what I need.... It is what will make my business tick and be a success...

Today I am mostly going to be saying.... F88K Political Correctness!

[miniman]

The absence of the correct educational achievements is a good reason not to promote someone who isn't up to it for sundry other reasons. In other words, a good excuse.

[lazystudent]

This reminds me of the ruling that says that women can't pay less for car insurance "because its discrimination against men"-ffs, its a simple fact that, on average, young men crash more and cause more damage. Grr.

[baz1985]

Ah well, it could be called the 'Tea-making scheme' in future. Start off as a 'trainee assistant milk logistics advisor' (fetch and return milk to fridge), work your way up to 'director of tea operations' where one controls the whole supply chain from switching the kettle on to delivery of mug on desk...congratulations...you may now read this client's portfolio.........

[phil-sti]

I don't have a degree but I have 14 years experience, does that mean I shouldn't get a promotion? As already stated, a degree should be a way of fast tracking not a reason to stop other people from progressing.

[Jasandjules]

voyds9 said:

Would you prefer your doctor to have a degree or plenty of experience.

Would your thoughts change if he was getting the experience on you.

Lawyer is the same. In fact, you might not realise this but a lawyer doesn't need a law degree, any degree will do, then a conversion course.

I rather think a doctor is a different proposition to a police officer, in the same way a vet is. Last time I checked however a beat officer didn't need some degree to then go and man a desk.......

[davepoth]

It does rather depend on the job in question, doesn't it? If the job required extensive amounts of reading and interpreting case law it does seem sensible that a law degree would be a good idea.

[CBR JGWRR]

Not that a degree is worth anything these days...




(First year Motorsport engineering degree...)

[lazystudent]

CBR JGWRR said:

Not that a degree is worth anything these days...

Disagree with you there fella!

If you went back 30 years and got a degree, it would be worth a lot.

Fast forward 30 years, those same degree courses from the same universities are still worth the same, and those graduates will have much the same reaction upon presenting the same piece of paper. There is now also a lot of "froth" surrounding them that isn't worth as much. Unfortunately, the government over the last 10years seems to have adopted a target driven "let's throw money at it and get everyone to go to university for the sake of it" approach without thinking about the consequences!

IMHO

[davepoth]

CBR JGWRR said:

Not that a degree is worth anything these days...




(First year Motorsport engineering degree...)

Not true - it must be worth up to £27,000 if that's what people are paying for them...

[oyster]

heppers75 said:

If you want another take on this kind of issue.

6 weeks ago I recruited a guy into a new business I have started, he was a 40 something chap from a larger corporate background and I had asked in interview on a number of occasions in interview was he happy to work in a dynamic startup, chip in all over the shop and bring his experience and help the team with his experience while helping me using mine to grow this business.

Yesterday he quit and said it was too fast paced and he couldn't cope essentially and he was desperate to get back to the safety net of big corporate.

I spoke to the recruitment guy who I had paid £6k to as a fee! He will backfill FoC but I had to say ... Mark I want a Software BA with customer facing experience who is 30 something, with decent relevant experience and has a young and dynamic outlook and is willing to just muck in, he said well I can't say any of that but leave it with me to translate etc... Madness as that is what I need.... It is what will make my business tick and be a success...

Today I am mostly going to be saying.... F88K Political Correctness!

What has the age of the guy you recruited got to do with whether he found your business too fast-paced? If he was in his 70's then maybe so, but 40's.... FFS.
And you're not being politically correct, you're being ageist!

[CBR JGWRR]

lazystudent said:

CBR JGWRR said:

Not that a degree is worth anything these days...

Disagree with you there fella!

If you went back 30 years and got a degree, it would be worth a lot.

Fast forward 30 years, those same degree courses from the same universities are still worth the same, and those graduates will have much the same reaction upon presenting the same piece of paper. There is now also a lot of "froth" surrounding them that isn't worth as much. Unfortunately, the government over the last 10years seems to have adopted a target driven "let's throw money at it and get everyone to go to university for the sake of it" approach without thinking about the consequences!

IMHO

Exactly. Even someone like me can get a degree now, its useless. 30 years ago, only a few (relatively) had degrees. Now anyone can, and it's just another piece of paper.

It's only worth doing if A) You can actually do it, B) if you get into the right uni, C) You can get the real world experience needed.

At the moment, I'm failing on all three. Well, Coventry is quite highly rated for my course, but...

davepoth said:

CBR JGWRR said:

Not that a degree is worth anything these days...




(First year Motorsport engineering degree...)

Not true - it must be worth up to £27,000 if that's what people are paying for them...

In my area, you pay to get the right job... You don't get paid. Well, in monetary terms at least.

[Shuvi McTupya]

The Telegraph said:

Since 2006, age discrimination rules have prevented employers from specifying the number of years' experience required for roles because it could discriminate against younger workers.

I have been job hunting recently and i have seen LOTS of people asking for a minimum of two years
experience. This is for a job that you can get qualified for by taking a one week course.

Edited by Shuvi McTupya on Wednesday 25th April 22:10

[Use Psychology]

there are some fields where a degree is basically 'initial training' so you won't get your foot in the door with it:

medicine
scientists
engineers?
that's probably it

lawyers with law degrees are losers anyway.