UKIP PP broadcast

[thinfourth2]

Esseesse said:

oyster said:

In any case, the EU is not a particularly important policy point for most people. It seems to worry a few fringe Tories, but opinion polls always list Europe/EU as one of the less important issues, down there with the environment and well behind unemployment, tax, economy, housing, transport and health.

Libdem and Labour MPs often trot out this line and list half a dozen things that apparently people are more concerned about. Thing is these things tend to be controlled by the EU (immigration being one), of course they won't tell you that.

If you look at the UKIPs manifesto its pretty much 100% common bloody sense.

I don't vote UKIP as i want out of europe as i agree with everything else they say

Leaving the euro madness is a nice side benefit

[AJS-]

Esseesse said:

oyster said:

In any case, the EU is not a particularly important policy point for most people. It seems to worry a few fringe Tories, but opinion polls always list Europe/EU as one of the less important issues, down there with the environment and well behind unemployment, tax, economy, housing, transport and health.

Libdem and Labour MPs often trot out this line and list half a dozen things that apparently people are more concerned about. Thing is these things tend to be controlled by the EU (immigration being one), of course they won't tell you that.

I always think these fail to put any qualitative aspect to "importance."

Of course no-one goes around thinking about the constitutional implications of the Lisbon Treaty in the way they think about unemployment, housing or other pressing day to day issues. But ultimately the foundation of our being able to decide on these things as a democracy is what is at stake with the European Union, and I think people realise that to a greater extent than politicians realise when they patronise us with cliches about "real people" worried about train times and the price of a Greggs pasty.

[oyster]

AJS- said:

Esseesse said:

oyster said:

In any case, the EU is not a particularly important policy point for most people. It seems to worry a few fringe Tories, but opinion polls always list Europe/EU as one of the less important issues, down there with the environment and well behind unemployment, tax, economy, housing, transport and health.

Libdem and Labour MPs often trot out this line and list half a dozen things that apparently people are more concerned about. Thing is these things tend to be controlled by the EU (immigration being one), of course they won't tell you that.

I always think these fail to put any qualitative aspect to "importance."

Of course no-one goes around thinking about the constitutional implications of the Lisbon Treaty in the way they think about unemployment, housing or other pressing day to day issues. But ultimately the foundation of our being able to decide on these things as a democracy is what is at stake with the European Union, and I think people realise that to a greater extent than politicians realise when they patronise us with cliches about "real people" worried about train times and the price of a Greggs pasty.

I'm not talking about what politicians say are important to people (because they are probably lying), I am talking about the polls that are occasionally asked about what's important to voters.

From April 2012 Ipsos-Mori poll:
Economy 55.1%
Unemployment 40.2%
Race/immigration 21.2%
NHS 20.2%
Crime/Law 19.7%
Inflation 18.4%
Education 15.1%
Fuel Prices 14.6%
Poverty 9.9%
Defence/Terrorism 8.8%
Pensions/Benefits 7.7%
Housing 7.6%
Low Pay/Wages 7.1%
Morality 6.3%
Drug Abuse 6.1%
Elderly Care 6.0%
Taxation 4.7%
Public Services 4.3%
EU/Europe 3.7%


As you can see, not that important to voters.

[Blue62]

oyster said:

I'm not talking about what politicians say are important to people (because they are probably lying), I am talking about the polls that are occasionally asked about what's important to voters.

From April 2012 Ipsos-Mori poll:
Economy 55.1%
Unemployment 40.2%
Race/immigration 21.2%
NHS 20.2%
Crime/Law 19.7%
Inflation 18.4%
Education 15.1%
Fuel Prices 14.6%
Poverty 9.9%
Defence/Terrorism 8.8%
Pensions/Benefits 7.7%
Housing 7.6%
Low Pay/Wages 7.1%
Morality 6.3%
Drug Abuse 6.1%
Elderly Care 6.0%
Taxation 4.7%
Public Services 4.3%
EU/Europe 3.7%


As you can see, not that important to voters.

But that 3.7% is actually 92.3% of all PHer's.

[AJS-]

oyster said:

I'm not talking about what politicians say are important to people (because they are probably lying), I am talking about the polls that are occasionally asked about what's important to voters.

From April 2012 Ipsos-Mori poll:
Economy 55.1%
Unemployment 40.2%
Race/immigration 21.2%
NHS 20.2%
Crime/Law 19.7%
Inflation 18.4%
Education 15.1%
Fuel Prices 14.6%
Poverty 9.9%
Defence/Terrorism 8.8%
Pensions/Benefits 7.7%
Housing 7.6%
Low Pay/Wages 7.1%
Morality 6.3%
Drug Abuse 6.1%
Elderly Care 6.0%
Taxation 4.7%
Public Services 4.3%
EU/Europe 3.7%


As you can see, not that important to voters.

Yes, but that's just a simple hierarchy based on a question along the lines of "which of these is more important to you?" There are different kinds of importance, and as I said constitutional issues are never going to be as pressing as other areas. However their importance in the grand scheme of things is a different matter.

[steveT350C]

thinfourth2 said:

If you look at the UKIPs manifesto its pretty much 100% common bloody sense.

I don't vote UKIP as i want out of europe as i agree with everything else they say

Leaving the euro madness is a nice side benefit

My thoughts exactly. 100% common bloody sense.

Well put!

Edited by steveT350C on Thursday 26th April 12:12

[Blue62]

Fair point AJS, but the fact remains that UKIP (for the majority of voters) are still regarded as a fringe party and more of a protest vote than anything else. To those of you who support UKIP, how do you think they can go about changing that perception?

[chris watton]

Blue62 said:

Fair point AJS, but the fact remains that UKIP (for the majority of voters) are still regarded as a fringe party and more of a protest vote than anything else. To those of you who support UKIP, how do you think they can go about changing that perception?

They have to start somewhere - you never get a brand new political party to win mainstream hearts and minds overnight.....

Edited by chris watton on Thursday 26th April 12:26

[steveT350C]

Blue62 said:

Fair point AJS, but the fact remains that UKIP (for the majority of voters) are still regarded as a fringe party and more of a protest vote than anything else. To those of you who support UKIP, how do you think they can go about changing that perception?

This is THE question for UKIP

Nigel Farage is starting to spend more time in the media; LBC, Radio 5Live and BBC Question Time this week alone. It is a start.

Maybe he needs to cosy up to Murdoch...



Oh, too late!

[AJS-]

I think it will take time. They're already beating the Lib Dems in some polls, and there's talk of one or two Tory MPs defecting there too, which would be interesting.

They also need to break the cult of Farage a bit. I like him on balance, he's a tremendous speaker and has done a great deal to raise the profile of the party, but it does seem to be something of a one man show. They need to develop a few other big hitters to mature as a party.

Daniel Hannan would be good.

[V8mate]

AJS- said:

Daniel Hannan would be good.

Absolutely.

[wiggy001]

Just looking at the UKIP manifesto for London and, aside from the 25p levy on Tories to maintain Big Ben (not sure how that would be implemented anyway), I think I agree with everything they say they will do.

[BigMacDaddy]

I've always voted Conservative, even though UKIP probably represented my views more in the last election. Pretty much for the same reason as everyone else probably gives: They won't get in, and you might as well be voting for Labour.

It seems I'm not alone however in deciding that I'd rather vote UKIP than carry on electing the same dross into power every 4/5 years. Unless something changes dramatically in the next couple of years I can absolutely guarantee I won't be voting Tory this time.......

[oyster]

UKIP are a one-man show and a one-issue party.

If they're not, then they need to rename themselves as UKP. Being in or out of the EU is important, but when people put an X in the ballot box, they do it on who will give them more cash in their pocket and make them feel like they will continue to keep getting that cash.

How will UKIP do that?

[einsign]

BigMacDaddy said:

for the same reason as everyone else. They won't get in, and you might as well be voting for Labour.

This view in my opinion is weak, vote for who you believe in! I was conservative and will now vote UKIP. The main parties are both sh¦te and unless people grow some balls nothing will ever change!

[AJS-]

oyster said:

UKIP are a one-man show and a one-issue party.

If they're not, then they need to rename themselves as UKP. Being in or out of the EU is important, but when people put an X in the ballot box, they do it on who will give them more cash in their pocket and make them feel like they will continue to keep getting that cash.

How will UKIP do that?

I think the I can be taken as a value in it's own right as well as independence from the European Union.

There's a few other international organisations I would like to get out of once we're out of the EU. The UN for starters, WTO, IMF. None of them really do any good, they cost us a lot of money and seek to empower themselves without any democratic control. Then there is also independence of the individual from the state, independence of the state from strong vested interests.

Basically the notion that our government should be open and accountable at all levels, and that this is best achieved in the context of a democratic nation state.

I think "independence" sums this up quite well.

[powerstroke]

oyster said:

I'm not talking about what politicians say are important to people (because they are probably lying), I am talking about the polls that are occasionally asked about what's important to voters.

From April 2012 Ipsos-Mori poll:
Economy 55.1%
Unemployment 40.2%
Race/immigration 21.2%
NHS 20.2%
Crime/Law 19.7%
Inflation 18.4%
Education 15.1%
Fuel Prices 14.6%
Poverty 9.9%
Defence/Terrorism 8.8%
Pensions/Benefits 7.7%
Housing 7.6%
Low Pay/Wages 7.1%
Morality 6.3%
Drug Abuse 6.1%
Elderly Care 6.0%
Taxation 4.7%
Public Services 4.3%
EU/Europe 3.7%


As you can see, not that important to voters.

No not on its own !!! but the EU has a major negative affect and/or say in just
about everything on your list, taxes, immigration, economy, law etc, most of our problems would be easyier to fix without the dead hand of the EU medeling and taking 50 milion a day for the pleasure of fking us up...

[chris watton]

einsign said:

BigMacDaddy said:

for the same reason as everyone else. They won't get in, and you might as well be voting for Labour.

This view in my opinion is weak, vote for who you believe in! I was conservative and will now vote UKIP. The main parties are both sh¦te and unless people grow some balls nothing will ever change!

So true.
I guess I would be what many would call a 'natural tory voter', being in the private sector and wanting minimum state interference - but
if I voted for Cameron's version of the Tory party, I'd feel like a turkey voting for Christmas.

[powerstroke]

chris watton said:

einsign said:

BigMacDaddy said:

for the same reason as everyone else. They won't get in, and you might as well be voting for Labour.

This view in my opinion is weak, vote for who you believe in! I was conservative and will now vote UKIP. The main parties are both sh¦te and unless people grow some balls nothing will ever change!

So true.
I guess I would be what many would call a 'natural tory voter', being in the private sector and wanting minimum state interference - but
if I voted for Cameron's version of the Tory party, I'd feel like a turkey voting for Christmas.

+1...

[IAmAHorse]

Farage makes a good speech.
He seems to talk sense in the youtube vids I've seen of him speaking in the Euro parliament.

But has anyone who is planning to vote for UKIP read this?

Apparently (though well-referenced):
Links with far-right organisations, including BNP, National Front and Polish extremists?
Opposition to equal opportunities for women?
Openly homophobic?
And the belief that fossil fuels are renewable?

I know this is PH so I don't necessarily expect a sensible response, but isn't it worth looking beyond a bit of party policy before casting your vote?

Edited by IAmAHorse on Thursday 26th April 16:06