Abdelbaset El-Megrahi dies....
Discussion
jshell said:
Derek Smith said:
Then some PHer (sorry, forgot who) rather kindly sent me a copy of the full Foot report.
Don't forget, Hans Kochler, the UN observer called the trial of Megrahi: "a spectacular miscarriage of justice"
Foot report available to anyone who PM's me for a copy!
bigandclever said:
DSM2 said:
I have, this minute watched an interview with the father of one of the victims. "..am I sad he's dead? No. There is no doubt in my mind Mr Megrahii was throne responsible for planting the bomb".
I would go with that anytime before a PH poster.
Good riddance.
Clearly not seen the interview with Dr Jim Swire. Take your pick.I would go with that anytime before a PH poster.
Good riddance.
Having spoken to Jim at length about this, I have no doubt whatsoever that El-Magrahi was innocent of the crime he was convicted of. It was a conviction of significant convenience and means that the guilty men have gone free. Jim was happy to see El-Magrahi set free, and I am happy to go with his judgement.
RIP. I'm slightly ashamed to bear the passport of a nation that treated the man so badly.
Oli.
Sometimes people who are (genuinely) thought to be imminently dying turn out not to be - in particular once they're discharged to good quality palliative care.
This is not all that uncommon.
I don't think regardless of what is thought about his guilt that this should be held against him, or against the doctor that made that call.
This is not all that uncommon.
I don't think regardless of what is thought about his guilt that this should be held against him, or against the doctor that made that call.
[quote=zcacogp]
The Swire family is friends of my family's, and Flora (killed on the flight) was a friend of mine.
The Stephenson family, Margaret, Peter, Hannah & Rachel were my god parents were on flight 103. We were with them the night before they were going to fly to spend Christmas with friends in America. Hannah & Rachel were going to stay with us but ended up going last minute.
More than one person was involved in this and have got away with it. Maybe on their deathbed we might find the truth. Sadly I feel that it's unlikely.
The Swire family is friends of my family's, and Flora (killed on the flight) was a friend of mine.
The Stephenson family, Margaret, Peter, Hannah & Rachel were my god parents were on flight 103. We were with them the night before they were going to fly to spend Christmas with friends in America. Hannah & Rachel were going to stay with us but ended up going last minute.
More than one person was involved in this and have got away with it. Maybe on their deathbed we might find the truth. Sadly I feel that it's unlikely.
Gaffer said:
Can you send me a copy please..?
Drop me a PM and I'll reply with a copy. Don't think I can send from here...Been quite a few requests as a response to this thread already. The more folks see this sham for what it was, the better IMHO! Though none of those who've expressed an opinion of continued guilt seem to have asked. Hey-ho!
Derek Smith said:
andy_s said:
Quite; furthermore, I remember a year or so ago his son (?) saying he had written a full account of his side of the story which wouldn't be released until after his death...
Yes, thanks for that. It has slipped my mind. MK4 Slowride]cacogp said:
The Swire family is friends of my family's, and Flora (killed on the flight) was a friend of mine.
The Stephenson family, Margaret, Peter, Hannah & Rachel were my god parents were on flight 103. We were with them the night before they were going to fly to spend Christmas with friends in America. Hannah & Rachel were going to stay with us but ended up going last minute.
More than one person was involved in this and have got away with it. Maybe on their deathbed we might find the truth. Sadly I feel that it's unlikely.
That seems to be what most NoK want, not retribution but the truth as to what actually occurred. That's even from those who believe they know what happened, or at least why, but just want someone to admit it. I'm afraid there's no way the Americans will ever say anything other than what they have already. They've invested too much in the sham.The Stephenson family, Margaret, Peter, Hannah & Rachel were my god parents were on flight 103. We were with them the night before they were going to fly to spend Christmas with friends in America. Hannah & Rachel were going to stay with us but ended up going last minute.
More than one person was involved in this and have got away with it. Maybe on their deathbed we might find the truth. Sadly I feel that it's unlikely.
The Foot report makes sad reading.
I went to a lecture, little more than a chat really, from a chap from what was then the AAIB. He said that their intent was not to blame but to find out why to ensure no repetition. He said that the vast majority of survivors and NoK are more than happy with that. If a pilot, for instance, admits to an error, there is little pressure to have them punished, just retrained of grounded.
People, it seems, are quite understanding.
Gaffer said:
Roo said:
I would imagine they'll feel a bit easier about releasing any information now that the Gadaffi family are no longer around.
Oh they are - there are loads of them and the main one to watch out for is Saif - is is twice as mad as his Dad and more ruthless to boot.I would've assumed, presumably wrongly by the look of it, that being incarcerated would stop that.
They still hold a lot of support, not as much out in the open but behind the scene and the tribes will swing towards them if he gains more support. He is a clever and nasty bugger. I wouldn't put anything past him.
A lot of the Libyans only ever lived under 1 ruler and a lot were happy. It appeared (at least to me and other ex-pats) that the main guys rebelling were the very lowest of the pyramid, which to be fair they did get a s
tty deal but they also didn't want to improve their lot.
This is getting waaaay off topic now
A lot of the Libyans only ever lived under 1 ruler and a lot were happy. It appeared (at least to me and other ex-pats) that the main guys rebelling were the very lowest of the pyramid, which to be fair they did get a s
tty deal but they also didn't want to improve their lot.This is getting waaaay off topic now
Derek Smith said:
According to the BBC, the Lockerbie Bomber died as well.
There is little doubt that Megrahi did not do what he was found guilty of. There is a little more doubt as to whether he had anything to do with the bombing in any shape or form. His death is no grounds for rejoicing. There is a suggestion that his release came about to stop him appealing against his sentence.
There is enough documentation available to show that there is no doubt that he should never have been found guilty.
I agree totally. As one who worked in the Scottish legal system for 20 years, I feel ashamed at what was done in this case.There is little doubt that Megrahi did not do what he was found guilty of. There is a little more doubt as to whether he had anything to do with the bombing in any shape or form. His death is no grounds for rejoicing. There is a suggestion that his release came about to stop him appealing against his sentence.
There is enough documentation available to show that there is no doubt that he should never have been found guilty.
Many thanks to John for forwarding the report, very interesting it was too. I still feel the closest you'll ever get to finding out what happened was the events in david johnstons book (written iirc in the first year after the event), pretty much everything else is subject to disinformation in one form or another (intentional or otherwise)
Its interesting how the BBC today noted how most victims relatives in the UK believe Megrahi is innocent, but in America they're still adament he is guilty.
His conviction was one of the most botched we've come across, its also another fine example of why outlawing capital punishment was a good idea. Most sensible people know this man didnt do what he was sent to prison for, he might've done something but the conviction was less than sound. The Americans would've killed him.
His conviction was one of the most botched we've come across, its also another fine example of why outlawing capital punishment was a good idea. Most sensible people know this man didnt do what he was sent to prison for, he might've done something but the conviction was less than sound. The Americans would've killed him.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Many thanks to John for forwarding the report, very interesting it was too.
A pleasure!Getting a lot of requests for it now and still happy to distribute. Feel free to continue to PM me for copies! It's a message that should get as wide an audience as possible. Remember, Paul Foot was the only Journo that sat through the whole trial...
martin84 said:
Its interesting how the BBC today noted how most victims relatives in the UK believe Megrahi is innocent, but in America they're still adament he is guilty.
His conviction was one of the most botched we've come across, its also another fine example of why outlawing capital punishment was a good idea. Most sensible people know this man didnt do what he was sent to prison for, he might've done something but the conviction was less than sound. The Americans would've killed him.
Part of the problem I think is that there is a suggestion American 'officials' were complicit in supplying/creating the 'evidence'. Further there is the comforting thought that the deaths were nothing to do with IR655. Even if you believe in coincidences, the <six months between the two events, and the threat from Iran that they would retaliate might convince you otherwise.His conviction was one of the most botched we've come across, its also another fine example of why outlawing capital punishment was a good idea. Most sensible people know this man didnt do what he was sent to prison for, he might've done something but the conviction was less than sound. The Americans would've killed him.
To beleive that the trial was corrupt and the evidence tampered with suggests that the CIA et al are not prisine and that the reason the focus of the enquiry moved away from Iran was something to do with politics.
It's by no means all Americans who think the trial was not corrupt. I've met a couple of American NoK who, whilst they believe Megrahi was involved in some way, think that he played a minor part and that the real bombers were either Iranian or, a more popular theory, acting for them.
Giving Captain Rogers a medal for, in essence, shooting down a civilian airliner without any justification, was, I think, almost admitting that the PanAm bombing was retaliation.
Derek Smith said:
Giving Captain Rogers a medal for, in essence, shooting down a civilian airliner without any justification, was, I think, almost admitting that the PanAm bombing was retaliation.
Had to wiki that.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_C._Rogers_III...
Interesting read.
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