Virgin lose West Coast franchise to First Group

[Podie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19395621

Looks like it's being steam rollered in...

[GarryA]

Something fishy going on, I still stand by First Group running the infrastructure maintenance or Network Rail running the trains.

[davepoth]

And now Virgin are going to court, presumably for an injunction followed by a judicial review.

http://mediaroom.virgintrains.co.uk/2012/08/virgin...

[DAVEVO9]

http://news.sky.com/story/978027/virgin-takes-lega...

Does this now mean it will get halted for the time being?

[toppstuff]

First Group are a nasty, pernicious operator. Having travelled with them for the best part of a decade of my life, I do not trust them one little bit. I don't believe they will stand by their contract.

Anything that may derail this dodgy business is good news as far as I can see.

[skwdenyer]

Virgin are claiming there is a clause in the bidding process which prevents signing if there has been a legal challenge; therefore, they've mounted a legal challenge, ostensibly to buy time for others to exercise some scrutiny.

[-crookedtail-]

I share a mild hatred for First group like many others on here, their services out of Paddington are shocking.

However we also know beardy Branson likes a good old whinge when things dont go his way - Is this just sour grapes or does he have a legal leg to stand on here?

[davepoth]

-crookedtail- said:

I share a mild hatred for First group like many others on here, their services out of Paddington are shocking.

However we also know beardy Branson likes a good old whinge when things dont go his way - Is this just sour grapes or does he have a legal leg to stand on here?

Well, there is precedent for the type of deal First wants to make going catastrophically wrong, with the operating company handing the keys back to the government. Virgin do a good service on the WCML; on the few times I've taken the train up they've provided a good service.

My opinion of First is coloured by the terrible local bus service here in Bath; words can't really describe quite how crap they can be. My favourite is the GPS tracking that the council paid for. It seems that First have switched it off so people can't tell how late the buses are.

[Gun]

DAVEVO9 said:

http://news.sky.com/story/978027/virgin-takes-lega...

Does this now mean it will get halted for the time being?

I sincerely hope so, it's a shame it looks like they were just going to ignore the petition as well but who cares what the people who actually use the trains think eh CMD!

[MadMullah]

what i find unsurprising too is the complete disregard of the consumers who have been very happy with the service that virgin have provided

if it aint broke and all that...

[maniac886]

Based on my experience of First's shoddy bus service in my area I hope they don't obtain the West Coast franchise.

I have used Virgin trains a number of times between London Euston and Manchester and have never had any issues so I hope Virgin can somehow keep the franchise.

[Slaav]

MadMullah said:

what i find unsurprising too is the complete disregard of the consumers who have been very happy with the service that virgin have provided

if it aint broke and all that...

My understanding is that there is/was a formal tendering process. Rules set in stone! That process is then followed and the various tenders put through their paces where price alone is not able to win. Legalise everywhere and there will be pre determined yard sticks and KPI type stuff that have to be guaranteed (Left out the "..." deliberately)

Once the contract has been awarded/won, you are not then simply able to change the rules because you/your preferred option didnt win.


Notwithstanding the above, it does appear that actual pax are happy with Virgin? Despite that slime ball RB at the ultimate helm! And hope nobody buys that 'we will run it for free' bks. He offered to run teh Lottery 'not for profit' but I bet there were some pretty hefty upsides for Darling Branson and his various shells/companies!

Not sure what should happen or even will happen on this; just because I am not directly affected doesnt stop the interest though

[Apache]

I heard that Virgin lost out to First because of 'customer service' and 'fleet deliverability' from what I'm reading Virgin are head and shoulders above First for the former and I know they have no issues on the rolling stock maintenance side

[Ozzie Osmond]

Richard Branson

• Nice teeth
• Nice hair
• Bad loser

[GarryA]

I think RB is spot on with the fact that First will not be able to honour the contract in its later years.

However the contract will never get that far imho so First can bid way higher as they are the prefered TOC going forward their bid is bullst they know they will never have to pay it, the reason they will not give it to Virgin is that they would have to compensate Virgin for cutting the contract short, this is the beginning of the end for multiple TOCs on the network. First and NR are in bed together.

[Blue62]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Richard Branson

• Nice teeth
• Nice hair
• Bad loser

Wrong, a very determined businessman, nothing wrong with not wanting to lose. FWIW, I'm dreading First Group taking over and I'm not alone.

[Ozzie Osmond]

MadMullah said:

what i find unsurprising too is the complete disregard of the consumers who have been very happy with the service that virgin have provided

Oh for goodness sake. This is business, not some X-factor popularity contest.

[TallbutBuxomly]

Ozzie Osmond said:

MadMullah said:

what i find unsurprising too is the complete disregard of the consumers who have been very happy with the service that virgin have provided

Oh for goodness sake. This is business, not some X-factor popularity contest.

Ozzy what you seem to miss is that the criteria on which virgin failed was customer satisfaction and rolling stock.

First have a dreadful reputation for customer service whereas virgin trains to all intents and appearances have a very good reputation (Evident from the speed at which the online petition against the decision got 150k sigs)which raises the question of how could virgin lose out to western based on that criteria?

[TallbutBuxomly]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not an expert but my take on it is that first will use the very cleverly written rules and will reduce the prices on the lesser used services and in turn ramp up the prices on the most used to the absolute max allowed. At the same time they will reduce the services on the least used lines to the bare minimum and reduce the staffing in the same fashion.

They will also replace present stock with smaller or cheaper to run stock moving forward most likely. It seems to be from what i am reading the modus operandi.

[Podie]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

AFAIK the Virgin fleet is leased from Angel trains - seems logical they will continue with the same rolling stock.. with some renaming! (IIRC, more than one Pendo has a Virgin name)