Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2

Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 2

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ViperPict

10,087 posts

236 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
thinfourth2 said:
ViperPict said:
They may well come out with a fairly major announcement closer to the referendum. With any luck.
By which time it will be too late

But if you belive the YES vote will win lets see you put your money where your mouth is

odds are currently 7 to 1

invest £100 and you will get £700 back

I've got money on the NO vote and the odd were way worse
I've never said the YES campaign will win the referendum. I have said that they have effectively won already in the sense that this whole issue has sharply focussed Westminster eyes on Scotland, perhaps for the first time ever. And there have already been concessions to more devolved power with more still to come...

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all

ViperPict

10,087 posts

236 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Was JUST about to post that. Oops, talking to myself again! laugh

Now the real debates can begin. This is when it will really start to get interesting...

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Christ you're quick, do you get email updates from google with any "Independence" news? tongue out

Did anything happen WRT the proposed leading question, beginning "Do you agree..."?

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

254 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
The debates have been open for as long as you wanted. You do not need permission to talk about stuff by anyone in government on these forums, you know?

So, one question. Independence, or not. No talk of other powers... Interesting. Figured they would run it that way. As for the 16 & 17 year olds voting, I still think that is daft. Will they be able to vote on the other side of the election?

Caulkhead

4,938 posts

156 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Rollin said:
Support for independence dropping even further, down to 28%. Will only get worse for Salmond when the courts force him to stop hiding information.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-n...
Cue a chorus from VP and ED decrying polls and the biased rag that printed it. As usual. smile
I'm not decrying that. I show a passing interest in the polls but that's it. Views are largely irellevant until information is published and campaigns start. And although The Scotsman isn't in favour of independenc it's still a decent read.
Individually polls mean little, the trend many show however, is unwise to ignore.

The steady reduction in support for independence is not because independence is inherently bad for Scotland, it is because of the way the SNP rides rough shod over facts and the electorate. Mark my words, it is the SNP that will cost Scotland independence, nothing else.
I don't deny that's a contributing factor but I think the year of 'Britishness' must also impact the general view.
Indeed it did, and the SNP's inability to see this and react accordingly supports my point.

The Scots I know are generally financially conservative (small C) and don't make important decisions at the last minute and without a thorough discussion of all the facts and ramifications. Somebody really ought to explain this to the SNP.


Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
TheHeretic said:
The debates have been open for as long as you wanted. You do not need permission to talk about stuff by anyone in government on these forums, you know?

So, one question. Independence, or not. No talk of other powers... Interesting. Figured they would run it that way. As for the 16 & 17 year olds voting, I still think that is daft. Will they be able to vote on the other side of the election?
Re. the 16 and 17 year olds, I can understand the argument for and the argument against them having a vote. But I'd find it difficult to argue against them being able to vote...

ViperPict

10,087 posts

236 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
TheHeretic said:
The debates have been open for as long as you wanted. You do not need permission to talk about stuff by anyone in government on these forums, you know?

So, one question. Independence, or not. No talk of other powers... Interesting. Figured they would run it that way. As for the 16 & 17 year olds voting, I still think that is daft. Will they be able to vote on the other side of the election?
I believe the SNP want to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in all elections.

It's potentially a dangerous game for the Unionists to give the electorate no other option apart from independence than the status quo. All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
Christ you're quick, do you get email updates from google with any "Independence" news? tongue out

Did anything happen WRT the proposed leading question, beginning "Do you agree..."?
Yeah, Big Eck texted me and said that Nic has got it sorted.

I'm joking, of course.

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

254 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Re. the 16 and 17 year olds, I can understand the argument for and the argument against them having a vote. But I'd find it difficult to argue against them being able to vote...
Well, that wasn't my question. If they are mature enough to vote to split a country, and go independent, will they get a say in who their MSP will be in the proceeding elections, etc?

Caulkhead

4,938 posts

156 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Rollin said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Rollin said:
Support for independence dropping even further, down to 28%. Will only get worse for Salmond when the courts force him to stop hiding information.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-n...
Cue a chorus from VP and ED decrying polls and the biased rag that printed it. As usual. smile
I'm not decrying that. I show a passing interest in the polls but that's it. Views are largely irellevant until information is published and campaigns start. And although The Scotsman isn't in favour of independenc it's still a decent read.
Individually polls mean little, the trend many show however, is unwise to ignore.

The steady reduction in support for independence is not because independence is inherently bad for Scotland, it is because of the way the SNP rides rough shod over facts and the electorate. Mark my words, it is the SNP that will cost Scotland independence, nothing else.
I don't deny that's a contributing factor but I think the year of 'Britishness' must also impact the general view.
More to do with the centuries of Britishness
Because the Scots have no cultural or national pride at all rolleyes
Of course they do, but only the separatists consider those two things mutually exclusive. I'm proud to be both British and English. I suspect most Scots are proud to be Scottish when appropriate and proud to be British when appropriate as this year has clearly demonstrated.


Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Caulkhead said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Rollin said:
Support for independence dropping even further, down to 28%. Will only get worse for Salmond when the courts force him to stop hiding information.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-n...
Cue a chorus from VP and ED decrying polls and the biased rag that printed it. As usual. smile
I'm not decrying that. I show a passing interest in the polls but that's it. Views are largely irellevant until information is published and campaigns start. And although The Scotsman isn't in favour of independenc it's still a decent read.
Individually polls mean little, the trend many show however, is unwise to ignore.

The steady reduction in support for independence is not because independence is inherently bad for Scotland, it is because of the way the SNP rides rough shod over facts and the electorate. Mark my words, it is the SNP that will cost Scotland independence, nothing else.
I don't deny that's a contributing factor but I think the year of 'Britishness' must also impact the general view.
Indeed it did, and the SNP's inability to see this and react accordingly supports my point.

The Scots I know are generally financially conservative (small C) and don't make important decisions at the last minute and without a thorough discussion of all the facts and ramifications. Somebody really ought to explain this to the SNP.
Well we've got two years to have a thorough discussion of all the facts and ramifications.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
TheHeretic said:
Edinburger said:
Re. the 16 and 17 year olds, I can understand the argument for and the argument against them having a vote. But I'd find it difficult to argue against them being able to vote...
Well, that wasn't my question. If they are mature enough to vote to split a country, and go independent, will they get a say in who their MSP will be in the proceeding elections, etc?
Yes they will, according to VP.

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

254 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
I believe the SNP want to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in all elections.

It's potentially a dangerous game for the Unionists to give the electorate no other option apart from independence than the status quo. All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.
Maybe they simply want a simple answer? Yes, or no. It does not mean that the status quo will remain, as it hasn't recently. It will be a nice scare tactic to use by the yes campaign though.

Caulkhead

4,938 posts

156 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
Caulkhead said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Rollin said:
Support for independence dropping even further, down to 28%. Will only get worse for Salmond when the courts force him to stop hiding information.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-n...
Cue a chorus from VP and ED decrying polls and the biased rag that printed it. As usual. smile
I'm not decrying that. I show a passing interest in the polls but that's it. Views are largely irellevant until information is published and campaigns start. And although The Scotsman isn't in favour of independenc it's still a decent read.
Individually polls mean little, the trend many show however, is unwise to ignore.

The steady reduction in support for independence is not because independence is inherently bad for Scotland, it is because of the way the SNP rides rough shod over facts and the electorate. Mark my words, it is the SNP that will cost Scotland independence, nothing else.
They may well come out with a fairly major announcement closer to the referendum. With any luck.
It's not down to luck, it's down to Salmond not running scared of sharing the facts with the people whose support he needs. People need time to consider a move as momentous as this one and if not given that time will stick with the status quo.

Caulkhead

4,938 posts

156 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
TheHeretic said:
The debates have been open for as long as you wanted. You do not need permission to talk about stuff by anyone in government on these forums, you know?

So, one question. Independence, or not. No talk of other powers... Interesting. Figured they would run it that way. As for the 16 & 17 year olds voting, I still think that is daft. Will they be able to vote on the other side of the election?
I believe the SNP want to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in all elections.

It's potentially a dangerous game for the Unionists to give the electorate no other option apart from independence than the status quo. All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.
It's equally as dangerous for the SNP to rely on 16 and 17 year old voters:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2207207/Sc...

Caulkhead

4,938 posts

156 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Rollin said:
Support for independence dropping even further, down to 28%. Will only get worse for Salmond when the courts force him to stop hiding information.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-n...
Cue a chorus from VP and ED decrying polls and the biased rag that printed it. As usual. smile
I'm not decrying that. I show a passing interest in the polls but that's it. Views are largely irellevant until information is published and campaigns start. And although The Scotsman isn't in favour of independenc it's still a decent read.
Individually polls mean little, the trend many show however, is unwise to ignore.

The steady reduction in support for independence is not because independence is inherently bad for Scotland, it is because of the way the SNP rides rough shod over facts and the electorate. Mark my words, it is the SNP that will cost Scotland independence, nothing else.
I don't deny that's a contributing factor but I think the year of 'Britishness' must also impact the general view.
Indeed it did, and the SNP's inability to see this and react accordingly supports my point.

The Scots I know are generally financially conservative (small C) and don't make important decisions at the last minute and without a thorough discussion of all the facts and ramifications. Somebody really ought to explain this to the SNP.
Well we've got two years to have a thorough discussion of all the facts and ramifications.
Then the SNP is almost already out of time.

ViperPict

10,087 posts

236 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Caulkhead said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Edinburger said:
Caulkhead said:
Rollin said:
Support for independence dropping even further, down to 28%. Will only get worse for Salmond when the courts force him to stop hiding information.

http://m.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-n...
Cue a chorus from VP and ED decrying polls and the biased rag that printed it. As usual. smile
I'm not decrying that. I show a passing interest in the polls but that's it. Views are largely irellevant until information is published and campaigns start. And although The Scotsman isn't in favour of independenc it's still a decent read.
Individually polls mean little, the trend many show however, is unwise to ignore.

The steady reduction in support for independence is not because independence is inherently bad for Scotland, it is because of the way the SNP rides rough shod over facts and the electorate. Mark my words, it is the SNP that will cost Scotland independence, nothing else.
I don't deny that's a contributing factor but I think the year of 'Britishness' must also impact the general view.
Indeed it did, and the SNP's inability to see this and react accordingly supports my point.

The Scots I know are generally financially conservative (small C) and don't make important decisions at the last minute and without a thorough discussion of all the facts and ramifications. Somebody really ought to explain this to the SNP.
Well we've got two years to have a thorough discussion of all the facts and ramifications.
Then the SNP is almost already out of time.
Only if Scotland votes YES...

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

254 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Steady on with the language. By all means insult them if they are avoiding a question you asked, or ignoring the obvious, (hehe), but you seem to be getting nasty without really actually discussing anything. At least broach some points, or subject matter first.

Rollin

6,077 posts

244 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
ViperPict said:
TheHeretic said:
The debates have been open for as long as you wanted. You do not need permission to talk about stuff by anyone in government on these forums, you know?

So, one question. Independence, or not. No talk of other powers... Interesting. Figured they would run it that way. As for the 16 & 17 year olds voting, I still think that is daft. Will they be able to vote on the other side of the election?
I believe the SNP want to allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote in all elections.

It's potentially a dangerous game for the Unionists to give the electorate no other option apart from independence than the status quo. All polls (IYBSTAP) indicate that the status quo has been the least popular of all options for Scotland.
poll said:
In October 2011 the polling firm began asking an additional question testing voters' views on whether Holyrood should be given greater powers short of independence.

That first poll showed a relatively even three-way split, with 33% for more powers, 29% for the status quo and 28% for independence. After some fluctuations, the latest poll puts the status quo top, with 35%, one point ahead of those seeking more powers, with independence languishing at 22%.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-...
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