Muslim protests in UK
Discussion
Pesty said:
come on you know how it goes. Just posting in a thread with muslim in the title makes you a swivel eyed racist.
It doesn't. But using every single crime involving Muslims to suggest that Islam is the root cause of the crime (rather than it being incidental) does seem to suggest that the poster has an ulterior motive.For example - the protests referred to by the OP; people protest about all kinds of things. As long as they stay within the law I couldn't care less what they protest about. But for some reason Muslims protesting on religious grounds shouldn't be allowed? Freedom of speech ONLY if we agree with uou?
Then you have the Pakistani grooming gangs; the same posters will suggest ths is something to do with"Islam", ignoring the fact that it contradicts Islamic preaching about extra marital sex, drinking alcohol, or using drugs. And now the latest post about violent Imams- its funny how quickly people forget about corporal punishment in mainstream British schools. I was in primary school in the '70s and it was most certainly in use then. There were regular incidences of PE teachers physically disciplining boys in our secondary school. My understanding is that it was far worse in catholic and Jesuit schools. However the usual suspects point to mosque schools as if they're something unique.
Like most mosques ours has a safeguarding policy in place. Anybody doing what the Imam in the link above was doing would be sacked and reported to the police. And, whilst this may come as a shock, occasionally staff in schools don't follow policies and break the law. Regardless of whether they're Muslim, Christian, or Mathematicians.
Countdown said:
Pesty said:
come on you know how it goes. Just posting in a thread with muslim in the title makes you a swivel eyed racist.
It doesn't. But using every single crime involving Muslims to suggest that Islam is the root cause of the crime (rather than it being incidental) does seem to suggest that the poster has an ulterior motive.For example - the protests referred to by the OP; people protest about all kinds of things. As long as they stay within the law I couldn't care less what they protest about. But for some reason Muslims protesting on religious grounds shouldn't be allowed? Freedom of speech ONLY if we agree with uou?
Then you have the Pakistani grooming gangs; the same posters will suggest ths is something to do with"Islam", ignoring the fact that it contradicts Islamic preaching about extra marital sex, drinking alcohol, or using drugs. And now the latest post about violent Imams- its funny how quickly people forget about corporal punishment in mainstream British schools. I was in primary school in the '70s and it was most certainly in use then. There were regular incidences of PE teachers physically disciplining boys in our secondary school. My understanding is that it was far worse in catholic and Jesuit schools. However the usual suspects point to mosque schools as if they're something unique.
Like most mosques ours has a safeguarding policy in place. Anybody doing what the Imam in the link above was doing would be sacked and reported to the police. And, whilst this may come as a shock, occasionally staff in schools don't follow policies and break the law. Regardless of whether they're Muslim, Christian, or Mathematicians.
Countdown said:
..Then you have the Pakistani grooming gangs; the same posters will suggest ths is something to do with"Islam", ignoring the fact that it contradicts Islamic preaching about extra marital sex, drinking alcohol, or using drugs.
So should the Muslims seem to be guilty of all such preaching. do they get kicked out of the Mosque? Colonial said:
Every single poster has an agenda.
I object to glib statements and stereotypes. So I use them
Yeah a lot of people seek to make a thread into a mutual cock sucking between likeminded individuals, no reason, no balance , just a perpetual repetition of the same old dogma. I object to glib statements and stereotypes. So I use them
Mermaid said:
Countdown said:
..Then you have the Pakistani grooming gangs; the same posters will suggest ths is something to do with"Islam", ignoring the fact that it contradicts Islamic preaching about extra marital sex, drinking alcohol, or using drugs.
So should the Muslims seem to be guilty of all such preaching. do they get kicked out of the Mosque? Countdown said:
It doesn't. But using every single crime involving Muslims to suggest that Islam is the root cause of the crime (rather than it being incidental) does seem to suggest that the poster has an ulterior motive.
For example - the protests referred to by the OP; people protest about all kinds of things. As long as they stay within the law I couldn't care less what they protest about. But for some reason Muslims protesting on religious grounds shouldn't be allowed? Freedom of speech ONLY if we agree with uou?
Then you have the Pakistani grooming gangs; the same posters will suggest ths is something to do with"Islam", ignoring the fact that it contradicts Islamic preaching about extra marital sex, drinking alcohol, or using drugs. And now the latest post about violent Imams- its funny how quickly people forget about corporal punishment in mainstream British schools. I was in primary school in the '70s and it was most certainly in use then. There were regular incidences of PE teachers physically disciplining boys in our secondary school. My understanding is that it was far worse in catholic and Jesuit schools. However the usual suspects point to mosque schools as if they're something unique.
Like most mosques ours has a safeguarding policy in place. Anybody doing what the Imam in the link above was doing would be sacked and reported to the police. And, whilst this may come as a shock, occasionally staff in schools don't follow policies and break the law. Regardless of whether they're Muslim, Christian, or Mathematicians.
Exactly my point. For example - the protests referred to by the OP; people protest about all kinds of things. As long as they stay within the law I couldn't care less what they protest about. But for some reason Muslims protesting on religious grounds shouldn't be allowed? Freedom of speech ONLY if we agree with uou?
Then you have the Pakistani grooming gangs; the same posters will suggest ths is something to do with"Islam", ignoring the fact that it contradicts Islamic preaching about extra marital sex, drinking alcohol, or using drugs. And now the latest post about violent Imams- its funny how quickly people forget about corporal punishment in mainstream British schools. I was in primary school in the '70s and it was most certainly in use then. There were regular incidences of PE teachers physically disciplining boys in our secondary school. My understanding is that it was far worse in catholic and Jesuit schools. However the usual suspects point to mosque schools as if they're something unique.
Like most mosques ours has a safeguarding policy in place. Anybody doing what the Imam in the link above was doing would be sacked and reported to the police. And, whilst this may come as a shock, occasionally staff in schools don't follow policies and break the law. Regardless of whether they're Muslim, Christian, or Mathematicians.
A number of posters are keen to label all individuals because of some t
ts because of their own agenda. Bad s
t happens by members of all beliefs. I don't judge catholics by the actions of a few. Maybe that can be extended. Countdown said:
Mermaid said:
Countdown said:
..Then you have the Pakistani grooming gangs; the same posters will suggest ths is something to do with"Islam", ignoring the fact that it contradicts Islamic preaching about extra marital sex, drinking alcohol, or using drugs.
So should the Muslims seem to be guilty of all such preaching. do they get kicked out of the Mosque? So for example, the unacceptably high incidence of Catholic clergy abusing children ( I honestly don't recall many/any incidents involving CoE clergy) might possibly be a result of the fact that these clergy are required to be celibate for their entire adult lives. The rules maketh the problem. Their position of trust and the power of hell and damnation they appeared to hold over their young victims essentially ensured the cover up continued for as long as it did.
An added factor here being the concept of confession/absolution that allowed the sinners to reset their "guilt meters" each week!
Likewise, in the case of the Muslim Paedo gangs could it not be the case that attitudes taught in some Mosques/schools about non muslims being dirty kuffars with little or no value before God essentially allows the perpetrators to see their victims as not human and therefore the crimes committed against them as "not really counting" (both in the eyes of their religion and their communities) An Imam with any kind of negative agenda in this regard could create a climate that fosters awful behaviour without actually having to tell his followers to go out and grab a kiddie.....
Essentially what I am outlining here is a relgiously triggered route to abuse that is abhorrent to the majority of those who would practice the religion, but which in essence is practically a guaranteed by product of the religion through the inherent flaws contained therein
andymadmak said:
Countdown said:
Mermaid said:
Countdown said:
..Then you have the Pakistani grooming gangs; the same posters will suggest ths is something to do with"Islam", ignoring the fact that it contradicts Islamic preaching about extra marital sex, drinking alcohol, or using drugs.
So should the Muslims seem to be guilty of all such preaching. do they get kicked out of the Mosque? So for example, the unacceptably high incidence of Catholic clergy abusing children ( I honestly don't recall many/any incidents involving CoE clergy) might possibly be a result of the fact that these clergy are required to be celibate for their entire adult lives. The rules maketh the problem. Their position of trust and the power of hell and damnation they appeared to hold over their young victims essentially ensured the cover up continued for as long as it did.
An added factor here being the concept of confession/absolution that allowed the sinners to reset their "guilt meters" each week!
Likewise, in the case of the Muslim Paedo gangs could it not be the case that attitudes taught in some Mosques/schools about non muslims being dirty kuffars with little or no value before God essentially allows the perpetrators to see their victims as not human and therefore the crimes committed against them as "not really counting" (both in the eyes of their religion and their communities) An Imam with any kind of negative agenda in this regard could create a climate that fosters awful behaviour without actually having to tell his followers to go out and grab a kiddie.....
Essentially what I am outlining here is a relgiously triggered route to abuse that is abhorrent to the majority of those who would practice the religion, but which in essence is practically a guaranteed by product of the religion through the inherent flaws contained therein
andymadmak said:
Likewise, in the case of the Muslim Paedo gangs could it not be the case that attitudes taught in some Mosques/schools about non muslims being dirty kuffars with little or no value before God essentially allows the perpetrators to see their victims as not human and therefore the crimes committed against them as "not really counting" (both in the eyes of their religion and their communities) An Imam with any kind of negative agenda in this regard could create a climate that fosters awful behaviour without actually having to tell his followers to go out and grab a kiddie.....
Essentially what I am outlining here is a relgiously triggered route to abuse that is abhorrent to the majority of those who would practice the religion, but which in essence is practically a guaranteed by product of the religion through the inherent flaws contained therein
It would be completely illogical. How, on the one hand, could an Imam preach abstention from extra marital sex, alcohol, and drugs, condone a crime which requires all three? The scum who did this knew what they were doing was illegal, immoral, and unjustifiable. It's got absolutely nothing to do with religion.Essentially what I am outlining here is a relgiously triggered route to abuse that is abhorrent to the majority of those who would practice the religion, but which in essence is practically a guaranteed by product of the religion through the inherent flaws contained therein
andymadmak said:
Perhaps a point worth considering might be that the things that happen in Mosques/Catholic chrches/ faith schools are in fact as a result of the teachings/attitiudes/circumstances one finds there?
So for example, the unacceptably high incidence of Catholic clergy abusing children ( I honestly don't recall many/any incidents involving CoE clergy) might possibly be a result of the fact that these clergy are required to be celibate for their entire adult lives. The rules maketh the problem. Their position of trust and the power of hell and damnation they appeared to hold over their young victims essentially ensured the cover up continued for as long as it did.
An added factor here being the concept of confession/absolution that allowed the sinners to reset their "guilt meters" each week!
Likewise, in the case of the Muslim Paedo gangs could it not be the case that attitudes taught in some Mosques/schools about non muslims being dirty kuffars with little or no value before God essentially allows the perpetrators to see their victims as not human and therefore the crimes committed against them as "not really counting" (both in the eyes of their religion and their communities) An Imam with any kind of negative agenda in this regard could create a climate that fosters awful behaviour without actually having to tell his followers to go out and grab a kiddie.....
Essentially what I am outlining here is a relgiously triggered route to abuse that is abhorrent to the majority of those who would practice the religion, but which in essence is practically a guaranteed by product of the religion through the inherent flaws contained therein
Good post and I tend to agree with the jist of it, however, having gone to a CofE cathedral school, believe me, there were paedos there too, indeed my old school has been in the news recently for a teacher who was sent down for 'burglary' (as Uncle Monty might say) which dated back many years. So for example, the unacceptably high incidence of Catholic clergy abusing children ( I honestly don't recall many/any incidents involving CoE clergy) might possibly be a result of the fact that these clergy are required to be celibate for their entire adult lives. The rules maketh the problem. Their position of trust and the power of hell and damnation they appeared to hold over their young victims essentially ensured the cover up continued for as long as it did.
An added factor here being the concept of confession/absolution that allowed the sinners to reset their "guilt meters" each week!
Likewise, in the case of the Muslim Paedo gangs could it not be the case that attitudes taught in some Mosques/schools about non muslims being dirty kuffars with little or no value before God essentially allows the perpetrators to see their victims as not human and therefore the crimes committed against them as "not really counting" (both in the eyes of their religion and their communities) An Imam with any kind of negative agenda in this regard could create a climate that fosters awful behaviour without actually having to tell his followers to go out and grab a kiddie.....
Essentially what I am outlining here is a relgiously triggered route to abuse that is abhorrent to the majority of those who would practice the religion, but which in essence is practically a guaranteed by product of the religion through the inherent flaws contained therein
I can certainly imagine, given how repugnant some 'Imams' can be, that the situation arises where they preach that others are fair game for anything. I'm sure they don't go out and tell people to do these things but the association builds that these people are not equal and hence can be treated differently, of course, this is utterly repugnant. Of course, it's been said many times in these debates that many of these people have never read their own religion in a language that they can understand and have merely recited the arabic words with no understanding of their meaning and no exegesis to enable interpretation. As you say, it has nothing to do with religion, rather than the pervasive attitudes of those who pretend to be religious.
968 said:
Of course, it's been said many times in these debates that many of these people have never read their own religion in a language that they can understand and have merely recited the arabic words with no understanding of their meaning and no exegesis to enable interpretation. As you say, it has nothing to do with religion, rather than the pervasive attitudes of those who pretend to be religious.
Question, is there Saudi influence at UK mosques?Mermaid said:
968 said:
Of course, it's been said many times in these debates that many of these people have never read their own religion in a language that they can understand and have merely recited the arabic words with no understanding of their meaning and no exegesis to enable interpretation. As you say, it has nothing to do with religion, rather than the pervasive attitudes of those who pretend to be religious.
Question, is there Saudi influence at UK mosques?Mermaid said:
Question, is there Saudi influence at UK mosques?
Yes. I add a note of caution, as I said before, I'm not a frequent attender of mosques, though I know many who do go. The saudi, wahabi influence is the poison that has tainted many people, not just in the UK, but in the rest of the world.Mermaid said:
968 said:
Of course, it's been said many times in these debates that many of these people have never read their own religion in a language that they can understand and have merely recited the arabic words with no understanding of their meaning and no exegesis to enable interpretation. As you say, it has nothing to do with religion, rather than the pervasive attitudes of those who pretend to be religious.
Question, is there Saudi influence at UK mosques?Mermaid said:
Mr_B said:
Worse. Rather vile Saudi school text books have been found in use in Islamic schools in the UK. Nothing like getting to them kids early to spread your hate.
Enough incitement for us to bomb them & sequester their oil 
Even the serious fraud office were told to stand down after UK bribes to Saudi were supposed to happen in return for arms deals.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/1...
Mermaid said:
Mr_B said:
Worse. Rather vile Saudi school text books have been found in use in Islamic schools in the UK. Nothing like getting to them kids early to spread your hate.
Enough incitement for us to bomb them & sequester their oil s off with their vile hatred of non muslims and to stop this st corrupting kids in state education. s1962a said:
Mermaid said:
Mr_B said:
Worse. Rather vile Saudi school text books have been found in use in Islamic schools in the UK. Nothing like getting to them kids early to spread your hate.
Enough incitement for us to bomb them & sequester their oil Even the serious fraud office were told to stand down after UK bribes to Saudi were supposed to happen in return for arms deals.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/1...
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