Cocktail of liquid nitrogen - Girl has stomach removed
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
We use all sorts of substances on a daily basis that have a potential to do us harm - boiling water, petrol, bottled propane/butane etc.
However we are used to dealing with these and by and large, are aware of the dangers and know how to behave around them.
Liquid nitrogen is not something the vast bulk of us handle on a daily basis - especially bar men and their customers. Unless you work in science or engineering, you will almost definitely be unaware of its properties and dangers.
It is a totally inappropriate material to be used in a normal everyday environment - and it certainly should never have been passed to a (possibly inebriated) 18 year old as part of a consumable product. It was reckless in the extreme and I do hope that this bar gets the book thrown at them.
Totally agree Eric, problem is that this is not the only bar using it I suspect. And if its not banned, they will continue to use it, although anyone with half a brain cell who knows about this girl, will neither sell it or consume it.However we are used to dealing with these and by and large, are aware of the dangers and know how to behave around them.
Liquid nitrogen is not something the vast bulk of us handle on a daily basis - especially bar men and their customers. Unless you work in science or engineering, you will almost definitely be unaware of its properties and dangers.
It is a totally inappropriate material to be used in a normal everyday environment - and it certainly should never have been passed to a (possibly inebriated) 18 year old as part of a consumable product. It was reckless in the extreme and I do hope that this bar gets the book thrown at them.
We use LN in various lab procedures - the hassle we have getting it delivered safely into the building, then up 3 flights of stair - takes various people manning lifts at all floors. Getting it in the lift ( you are not really meant to do this - but no other choice) getting it out lift and into the lab. When someone is using it there is another person there watching and checking the person doesn't somehow spill any when transferring it into the various containers - the health and safety around using this is there for a very good reason - some lab staff have died using this whn containers have been dropped and it goes everywhere - oxygen levels drop rapidly. Unfortunately for us we have to use it and it has to be transferred a fair bit in some procedures.
How this stuff got into a bar and then into a f
king cocktail amazes me.
How this stuff got into a bar and then into a f
king cocktail amazes me.
Craphouserat said:
We use LN in various lab procedures - the hassle we have getting it delivered safely into the building, then up 3 flights of stair - takes various people manning lifts at all floors. Getting it in the lift ( you are not really meant to do this - but no other choice) getting it out lift and into the lab. When someone is using it there is another person there watching and checking the person doesn't somehow spill any when transferring it into the various containers - the health and safety around using this is there for a very good reason - some lab staff have died using this whn containers have been dropped and it goes everywhere - oxygen levels drop rapidly. Unfortunately for us we have to use it and it has to be transferred a fair bit in some procedures.
How this stuff got into a bar and then into a fking cocktail amazes me.
two simple solutions for you:How this stuff got into a bar and then into a f
king cocktail amazes me.put a sign in the lift that instructs people not to get into it when there are dewars of cryogens in the lift.
DON'T GET IN THE LIFT WITH THE DEWAR (this is really stupid, ok the risk is low but the consequences are extreme).
spilling it on the floor? get some O2 sensors if you are worried about O2 depletion.
i pour liquid N2 from big dewar to little dewar several times a day with no trouble, and i spill it all the time (takes too long to pour it slowly) - call this room 5 metres x 5 metres x 2.5 and that is 62,500 litres of air in here - you'd need to vapourise 2700 litres of liquid N2 to displace all of the air from this room. so a 25 litre is not going to do much harm, especially since it's a chemistry lab and therefore has a high air flow rate.
I've been in a room where a large dewar of cryogens (a liquid helium one surrounded by a liquid nitrogen one) suddenly boiled (they were cooling a superconducting magnet, if things go wrong, the superconducting wires can heat up - which gives them resistance - which makes heat, and the cryogens all boil). took a few seconds to look at the spectacle and then left the room. It's not it's a container of lava or anything... if you spill or vapourise a large quantity just go somewhere else.
Edited by RealSquirrels on Wednesday 10th October 13:21
RealSquirrels said:
i pour liquid N2 from big dewar to little dewar several times a day with no trouble, and i spill it all the time (takes too long to pour it slowly) - call this room 5 metres x 5 metres x 2.5 and that is 62,500 litres of air in here - you'd need to vapourise 2700 litres of liquid N2 to displace all of the air from this room. so a 25 litre is not going to do much harm, especially since it's a chemistry lab and therefore has a high air flow rate.
Expansion rate is roughly 300 times from liquid to room temp gasSo 200Ltrs to achieve 100%
I wouldn't want to be in a room where you vaporise 25ltrs
But still agree its not a huge risk but its a risk
RealSquirrels said:
two simple solutions for you:
put a sign in the lift that instructs people not to get into it when there are dewars of cryogens in the lift.
DON'T GET IN THE LIFT WITH THE DEWAR (this is really stupid, ok the risk is low but the consequences are extreme).
spilling it on the floor? get some O2 sensors if you are worried about O2 depletion.
i pour liquid N2 from big dewar to little dewar several times a day with no trouble, and i spill it all the time (takes too long to pour it slowly) - call this room 5 metres x 5 metres x 2.5 and that is 62,500 litres of air in here - you'd need to vapourise 2700 litres of liquid N2 to displace all of the air from this room. so a 25 litre is not going to do much harm, especially since it's a chemistry lab and therefore has a high air flow rate.
I've been in a room where a large dewar of cryogens (a liquid helium one surrounded by a liquid nitrogen one) suddenly boiled (they were cooling a superconducting magnet, if things go wrong, the superconducting wires can heat up - which gives them resistance - which makes heat, and the cryogens all boil). took a few seconds to look at the spectacle and then left the room. It's not it's a container of lava or anything... if you spill or vapourise a large quantity just go somewhere else.
We share a building with other departments - not just forensic labs. Signs saying Don't get in the lift don't work - people are inherently lazy and half the fput a sign in the lift that instructs people not to get into it when there are dewars of cryogens in the lift.
DON'T GET IN THE LIFT WITH THE DEWAR (this is really stupid, ok the risk is low but the consequences are extreme).
spilling it on the floor? get some O2 sensors if you are worried about O2 depletion.
i pour liquid N2 from big dewar to little dewar several times a day with no trouble, and i spill it all the time (takes too long to pour it slowly) - call this room 5 metres x 5 metres x 2.5 and that is 62,500 litres of air in here - you'd need to vapourise 2700 litres of liquid N2 to displace all of the air from this room. so a 25 litre is not going to do much harm, especially since it's a chemistry lab and therefore has a high air flow rate.
I've been in a room where a large dewar of cryogens (a liquid helium one surrounded by a liquid nitrogen one) suddenly boiled (they were cooling a superconducting magnet, if things go wrong, the superconducting wires can heat up - which gives them resistance - which makes heat, and the cryogens all boil). took a few seconds to look at the spectacle and then left the room. It's not it's a container of lava or anything... if you spill or vapourise a large quantity just go somewhere else.
Edited by RealSquirrels on Wednesday 10th October 13:21
kers won't care what a dewar is or what L/N might do in a confined space. We know how to get it in safely and how to transport the stuff.But thanks for your input.
My point was simple - they obviously found a supplier that didn't give a f
k about h&s and they ( the bar ) didn't care how to transport it handle it etc. If they put in a fking drink I doubt they cared about moving it around.That was my point.
thinfourth2 said:
Expansion rate is roughly 300 times from liquid to room temp gas
So 200Ltrs to achieve 100%
I wouldn't want to be in a room where you vaporise 25ltrs
But still agree its not a huge risk but its a risk
you are quite right, sorry, I was getting the volume of 1 mol of gas (23 litres roughly) and the degree of expansion from liquid to gas confused. doh. So 200Ltrs to achieve 100%
I wouldn't want to be in a room where you vaporise 25ltrs
But still agree its not a huge risk but its a risk
i don't vapourise 25 litres obviously... probably a few hundred mls at a time max.
otolith said:
Agree with the sentiments in that article. If i can make comparisons with the lady who decanted petrol whilst doing a stir-fry, or whatever, in her kitchen earlier this year .. i'd rather that people were trained to handle potentially dangerous situations than banning everything. Besides if my numbers come up (and we're talking Premium Bonds or Lottery) i want to be able to partake in this crazy sh8t to celebrate! Not have some H&S killjoy take away my freedoms to do crazy sh8t. AJS - what do you think?Oakey said:
Link said:
"As long as you're not ingesting it in liquid form, all the research we have done indicates that it is a perfectly safe method to use in both bars and kitchens."
Which, if you're putting it in a drink, is likely to happen, no?It's not meant to be an ingredient, it's meant to be a way of processing the drink.
Oakey said:
Link said:
"As long as you're not ingesting it in liquid form, all the research we have done indicates that it is a perfectly safe method to use in both bars and kitchens."
Which, if you're putting it in a drink, is likely to happen, no?RealSquirrels said:
people make drinks with boiling water and set fire to alcoholic drinks too - and nobody would drink those drinks in that state. how is the situation here conceptually different?
People have a genral idea that boiling water and fire are bad. They may not be so knowledgable about other things.jmorgan said:
People have a genral idea that boiling water and fire are bad. They may not be so knowledgable about other things.
That is a reason for ensuring that anyone handling cryogenic substances for the preparation of food or drinks is properly trained, not a reason for not doing it.RealSquirrels said:
people make drinks with boiling water and set fire to alcoholic drinks too - and nobody would drink those drinks in that state. how is the situation here conceptually different?
interesting point. How many would neck a just boiled drink. As for setting fire to alcoholic drinks is the only thing that keeps my nose hair in check.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff