another abuse gang

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Discussion

andymadmak

Original Poster:

10,060 posts

209 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
.......this time in High Wycombe, allegations dating back to 2007 and involving at least one 12 year old girl
(although the Police only started proper investigations last December)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-he...

I simply don't understand the gang mentality behind actions like this. What makes a GROUP of men want to abuse a 12 year old girl? It's bad enough that individuals do it, but to get together with other people, apparently on a regular basis for this kind of horrific activity is so outside of my ability to comprehend that it simply fries my brain.
Are there any professionals in psychology on here that can explain the mentality behind group abuse of this sort?


jas xjr

11,071 posts

178 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
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My heart sinks everytime another one of these crops up .

Hope they get all they deserve

mat777

8,923 posts

99 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
Are they of a similar heritage to the other recent gang?

If yes, then look at the average age of (forced) brides in their home countries, and couple this with their attitude to white girls being worthless trash

andymadmak

Original Poster:

10,060 posts

209 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
mat777 said:
Are they of a similar heritage to the other recent gang?

If yes, then look at the average age of (forced) brides in their home countries, and couple this with their attitude to white girls being worthless trash
I was trying to avoid any reference to ethnicity, back ground or religious beliefs. I don't know the make up of the 8 accused.
You read about individual abusers of all types and colours. I suppose I look upon those people as loners acting out their sick fantasies. What I don't get at all is the idea of a gang, a group, getting together in this way. Does none of them ever say "hang on a moment guys, we shouldn't be doing this to a 12 year old kid" ?

jas xjr

11,071 posts

178 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
We will never understand their thought process . Can you imagine any of your mates ever suggesting such activities ?
In my case I think anybody suggesting anything like that would be totally ostracised .
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Chrisw666

22,655 posts

138 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
andymadmak said:
Does none of them ever say "hang on a moment guys, we shouldn't be doing this to a 12 year old kid" ?
What I don't understand is how it starts in the first place.

At one point does someone with a desire to sexually abuse kids say to his mates 'do you want to try?' because I'm sure if most of us suggested that to any of our mates we'd be at best cut off by them, and more likely have the Police called on us or be on the end of a good kicking.


CaptainSlow

8,664 posts

151 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
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mat777 said:
Are they of a similar heritage to the other recent gang?
Not been released yet but based on the area and other similar recent cases then we can all hazard a guess. I'm more surprised about the ages of the gang.

jdw100

2,673 posts

103 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
Chrisw666 said:
What I don't understand is how it starts in the first place.

At one point does someone with a desire to sexually abuse kids say to his mates 'do you want to try?' because I'm sure if most of us suggested that to any of our mates we'd be at best cut off by them, and more likely have the Police called on us or be on the end of a good kicking.
Just a thought but its probably easier now due to the internet. Bound to be chat rooms for this sort of thing?

Don't know how people did it years ago, could hardly sidle up to a chap in a pub and ask "so, do ou like kids...wink wink nudge nudge" could you?




Chrisw666

22,655 posts

138 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
jdw100 said:
Just a thought but its probably easier now due to the internet. Bound to be chat rooms for this sort of thing?
I think there is more to it than the internet, that removes a barrier between children & adults, and gives them a platform to share pictures. But the cases we've seen of this ilk are often groups from one local area who are a group of friends and would probably be friends without raping kids as part of their hobbies.

I'd guess its more down to an erosion of morals or an unwillingness to accept that they are doing anything wrong. Also from the POV of the girls they're often befriended by one or two and often think they're in a relationship, the abuse comes later in the form of emotional and psychological manipulation as much as sexual abuse.



jdw100

2,673 posts

103 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
Chrisw666 said:
I think there is more to it than the internet, that removes a barrier between children & adults, and gives them a platform to share pictures. But the cases we've seen of this ilk are often groups from one local area who are a group of friends and would probably be friends without raping kids as part of their hobbies.

I'd guess its more down to an erosion of morals or an unwillingness to accept that they are doing anything wrong. Also from the POV of the girls they're often befriended by one or two and often think they're in a relationship, the abuse comes later in the form of emotional and psychological manipulation as much as sexual abuse.
I think that makes a lot of sense, nice analysis.

stitched

2,289 posts

112 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
http://www.paulvallely.com/?p=5308
A reasonably balanced view.
The inference here is that given the free availability of porn now then many people who exist in a very conservative environment, sometimes married to a stranger from a village environment, will have an unfulfilled sex life.
It also points out, truthfully IMHO that the targeting of white British girls is probably opportunistic, most girls from muslim backgrounds are likely to be safely home and more conservative in their behavior.
Telling that no information is being released regards the ethnic background of these suspected offenders.
Will be a tad inflamatory if they turn out to be from one background or community.

ShawCrossShark

2,852 posts

173 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
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It just keeps getting worse. Story around here at the moment is a white van cruising around the schools trying to entice girls in. All reports from a number of different schools with the same story - 2 men, asian, white van

It's now being mentioned to all schoolchildren to walk home in groups, schools are issuing instructions to kids and parents and has been in the local press

Heard it on the radio news last night. Two men in a white van, no mention of ethnicity even though every other report and accounts hear first hand all say it rolleyes

stitched

2,289 posts

112 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
ShawCrossShark said:
It just keeps getting worse. Story around here at the moment is a white van cruising around the schools trying to entice girls in. All reports from a number of different schools with the same story - 2 men, asian, white van

It's now being mentioned to all schoolchildren to walk home in groups, schools are issuing instructions to kids and parents and has been in the local press

Heard it on the radio news last night. Two men in a white van, no mention of ethnicity even though every other report and accounts hear first hand all say it rolleyes
Not that I agree with witholding the information but I can see why. Pouring oil on troubled waters doesn't work so well with fires and some of the rhetoric from the far right is almost incitement to kill.
To cast this as a problem with Asians in general, bearing in mind most muslim communities have far stricter moral codes than are prevalent elsewhere, would be counter productive.
It is the denial within those communities that anyone in them could be capable of such behavior which needs tackling. Then we can target the individual criminals properly.

Pickled Piper

6,115 posts

174 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
stitched said:
http://www.paulvallely.com/?p=5308
A reasonably balanced view.
The inference here is that given the free availability of porn now then many people who exist in a very conservative environment, sometimes married to a stranger from a village environment, will have an unfulfilled sex life.
It also points out, truthfully IMHO that the targeting of white British girls is probably opportunistic, most girls from muslim backgrounds are likely to be safely home and more conservative in their behavior.
Telling that no information is being released regards the ethnic background of these suspected offenders.
Will be a tad inflamatory if they turn out to be from one background or community.
Very insightful, and probably a bit too close to the truth for many people from the community concerned. The only issue I have with it is the lazy swapping of the term Asian with Pakistani Muslim. The term is not interchangeable and does not mean the same thing.

pp

Digga

26,349 posts

222 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
Not that I condone it, but TBH girls of a certain type and age have always been vulnerable.

When I was at school, you'd see girls no older than 16 at most, being met by boyfriends with cars or motorbikes - borderline legal at best. Then there was the 14/15 yo girl who shagged our coach driver on the skiing trip I went on.

What has changed is probably that, for erasons explained below, more of these girls are being caught up, because there is a new, more voracious section of society pursuing them.

Marf

22,907 posts

180 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
Hang them

stitched

2,289 posts

112 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
Marf said:
Hang them
Agree.
Tar feather skin and hang any individual involved.
Allow it to become a racial issue however and we reduce the engagement of the communities who could and, IMHO would, assist our society in stamping out these vile practises.

andymadmak

Original Poster:

10,060 posts

209 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
Imam interviewed in Paul Vallely article said:
Sometimes the women, especially those who have come from Pakistan for an arranged marriage, need lessons on how to seduce their husbands. I told one woman that she needed to pay more attention to her husband and she paused and said: “I’ll iron more of his shirts then”. I had to explain that wasn’t quite what I meant.”
Now thats funny in ANY culture hehe

Hooli

32,278 posts

139 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
andymadmak said:
Imam interviewed in Paul Vallely article said:
Sometimes the women, especially those who have come from Pakistan for an arranged marriage, need lessons on how to seduce their husbands. I told one woman that she needed to pay more attention to her husband and she paused and said: “I’ll iron more of his shirts then”. I had to explain that wasn’t quite what I meant.”
Now thats funny in ANY culture hehe
yes

hehe

pork911

5,276 posts

122 months

Tuesday 20th November 2012
quotequote all
Digga said:
What has changed is probably that, for erasons explained below, more of these girls are being caught up, because there is a new, more voracious section of society pursuing them.
hmmmmm