Tony Blair is a national hero
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
Despicable though he is, and untrustworthy as he has proved, I still reckon I was right to vote for him in '97. The tories were a shambles; there was infighting and internal wranglings with everyone vying for the top job or at least to have influence over whoever was voted in. (Well, at least they've turned away from such self indulgences.) In his first period he wasn't as bad as the broken tory party would have been.
There was a massive swing to labour (was it a record?) and much of it was down to the self inflicted damage done by the MPs. The party would do well to remember this in their dealings with May. May isn't for turning. I seem to remember that Thatcher said something similar a day or two before she was pushed into a position where she had to retire.
Politics is normally quite volatile. The current situation with a less than stable leadership, with their biggest benefactor attacking May, and the brexit negotiations being reported to be in a parlous state, the party needs to consider the future.
Perhaps the massive swing to Labour was at least partly due to Tony Bliar getting his Party to go for a manifesto which was far more Tory-orientated than ever before. It was hardly the traditional Labour Left any longer.There was a massive swing to labour (was it a record?) and much of it was down to the self inflicted damage done by the MPs. The party would do well to remember this in their dealings with May. May isn't for turning. I seem to remember that Thatcher said something similar a day or two before she was pushed into a position where she had to retire.
Politics is normally quite volatile. The current situation with a less than stable leadership, with their biggest benefactor attacking May, and the brexit negotiations being reported to be in a parlous state, the party needs to consider the future.
fatboy18 said:
Blair 
Total C###t
Total C###t
This is the man who originated the concept of 'rubbing the Right's nose in diversity' and now he talks about 'restricting immigration'
What a
. He ought to be prosecuted and executed for treason.Oh, hang on, the treason law was repealed, I wonder who did that?
Him and Winky Brown together, swinging in the wind on the end of a rope, that would be British justice.
My sincere apologies, I should have included Mandelson and Campbell on the end of a rope also.
Edited by Tom Logan on Sunday 10th September 19:16
Robertj21a said:
Perhaps the massive swing to Labour was at least partly due to Tony Bliar getting his Party to go for a manifesto which was far more Tory-orientated than ever before. It was hardly the traditional Labour Left any longer.
Indeed it wasn't. The situation is considerably different at the moment. It the other Milliband, rather than the runt, had been in charge in 2015 I think we would have a labour government now, although a bit left of centre one. From the labour extremist point of view the sacrifice is probably seen as worth it. Blair's position was clever. He had no particular political beliefs and his only desire was for the top job. He was lucky with Smith's death.
The libdems should be taking up that position now but the betrayal of their most needed voters has hurt them. Maybe not as much as they deserve, but a lot.
Politics can undergo fundamental change with subtle changes. Cameron was bottling the 2010 election and threw in the EU vote to get the UKIP vote. Had there been someone sensible in charge, or even the clown, we'd not be in the middle of the non-negotiations.
And that's a warning for the tories. Continue with the internal squabbling, the fight for leadership (although we need a different PM) and they will probably not get a majority at the next election, whenever it is. Labour, the SNP and the libdems might have enough between them.
Get a grip, guys.
Blair for all his faults, and avaricious wife, still has supporters. The public doesn't like a loser generally, but he merely stepped aside. I reckon there's life in the old dog yet.
May has just suggested that the interest rate for student loans will be reduced. Why now? She wants to do that in the year before the elections. She's not the worst tory PM since the war. She's not even the worst tory PM since 2010, but she needs to perform.
Blair was deluded in office and succeeded in spinning the electorate at the same time.
His latest emissions show he's still deluded.
Including the expected ego angle that he was still hankering after being the first President of the EU not just the Commission and is watching his dream fade fast.
His latest emissions show he's still deluded.
Including the expected ego angle that he was still hankering after being the first President of the EU not just the Commission and is watching his dream fade fast.
Derek Smith said:
Robertj21a said:
Perhaps the massive swing to Labour was at least partly due to Tony Bliar getting his Party to go for a manifesto which was far more Tory-orientated than ever before. It was hardly the traditional Labour Left any longer.
Indeed it wasn't. The situation is considerably different at the moment. It the other Milliband, rather than the runt, had been in charge in 2015 I think we would have a labour government now, although a bit left of centre one. From the labour extremist point of view the sacrifice is probably seen as worth it. Blair's position was clever. He had no particular political beliefs and his only desire was for the top job. He was lucky with Smith's death.
The libdems should be taking up that position now but the betrayal of their most needed voters has hurt them. Maybe not as much as they deserve, but a lot.
Politics can undergo fundamental change with subtle changes. Cameron was bottling the 2010 election and threw in the EU vote to get the UKIP vote. Had there been someone sensible in charge, or even the clown, we'd not be in the middle of the non-negotiations.
And that's a warning for the tories. Continue with the internal squabbling, the fight for leadership (although we need a different PM) and they will probably not get a majority at the next election, whenever it is. Labour, the SNP and the libdems might have enough between them.
Get a grip, guys.
Blair for all his faults, and avaricious wife, still has supporters. The public doesn't like a loser generally, but he merely stepped aside. I reckon there's life in the old dog yet.
May has just suggested that the interest rate for student loans will be reduced. Why now? She wants to do that in the year before the elections. She's not the worst tory PM since the war. She's not even the worst tory PM since 2010, but she needs to perform.
ked up things are, the lack of due diligence (or was it) has allowed the contracts to be 'flipped'. Yes that's how Alice in wonderland it really is. A supposed left wing government allowed our hospitals to be traded like chips. Guess who pays. Robertj21a said:
Perhaps the massive swing to Labour was at least partly due to Tony Bliar getting his Party to go for a manifesto which was far more Tory-orientated than ever before. It was hardly the traditional Labour Left any longer.
Very true. Blair made Labour into Tory lite to get in. Different kettle of fish these days though. markcoznottz said:
Supporters are people who got free money, that we will end up paying for for years. Using pfi like a credit card is in no way sensible or long term viable. Just to give an example of how fked up things are, the lack of due diligence (or was it) has allowed the contracts to be 'flipped'. Yes that's how Alice in wonderland it really is. A supposed left wing government allowed our hospitals to be traded like chips. Guess who pays.
Didn't Cameron say that the tories would bring an end to pfi. How's that going?ked up things are, the lack of due diligence (or was it) has allowed the contracts to be 'flipped'. Yes that's how Alice in wonderland it really is. A supposed left wing government allowed our hospitals to be traded like chips. Guess who pays. Derek Smith said:
...
And that's a warning for the tories. Continue with the internal squabbling, the fight for leadership (although we need a different PM) and they will probably not get a majority at the next election, whenever it is. Labour, the SNP and the libdems might have enough between them....
Whilst I wouldn't bet my house on it, I'm not totally convinced.And that's a warning for the tories. Continue with the internal squabbling, the fight for leadership (although we need a different PM) and they will probably not get a majority at the next election, whenever it is. Labour, the SNP and the libdems might have enough between them....
It's hard to see how the Conservatives could have run a worse campaign. At times it looked to me like they were deliberately trying to throw it! And yet they took a bigger %age of the vote than for a long while, despite losing seats. With the proposed boundary changes I think they'd actually be in a stronger position seat wise - still no outright majority but with Sinn Fein not taking up their seats, as good as.
Conversely I think Corbyn played a brilliant campaign. But I cannot see him getting more votes than he did this time out. The other parties were complacent in writing him off. I doubt they will do the same again and there are far too many angles to be attacked between now and the next GE. If he gets a much better cabinet then maybe he has a chance, but then he chose the ones he has. If he starts to figure out how to pay for all the stuff he promises such that serious people back it up, then maybe too. But I just don't see it happening.
LibDems are a busted flush. Big Vince won't be changing that. Lower vote share than last time despite more seats, which the adjusted boundaries will put right. They need a much better leader, and more time to let the (mostly unfair) scars of their time in coalition to heal.
SNP - I think they've peaked too. People are sick of them and their record in government will start to hurt them. It's all well and good moaning at everyone else, but when you're in power and don't use it effectively, you have limited time. I can see the Conservatives under RuthD doing better than Labour out of any reversal in the SNP's fortunes.
Blair could possibly start a new party and if it were seen more "party agnostic" it might get some favour. But he is no Macron, and I don't see that we're out of love enough with the current parties to see this working.
Derek Smith said:
...
May has just suggested that the interest rate for student loans will be reduced. Why now? She wants to do that in the year before the elections......
Totally agree. She has zero tactical acumen whatsoever. Utterly inept. As mentioned above, if she was trying to throw things she couldn't do much better. And as she's now rid herself of the pinky and perky of advisors, it would seem like it's all her own work...she'd be well advised to do the exact opposite of what she feels she should do May has just suggested that the interest rate for student loans will be reduced. Why now? She wants to do that in the year before the elections......
Agree. Her decision making skills are severely lacking.
Trying to woo the young this early is plain crackers
a) half of them will see it for what it is, ignore it and carry on as they were.
b) the other half will have forgotten about it in 4.5 years time and still vote for Corbyn regardless.
Trying to woo the young this early is plain crackers
a) half of them will see it for what it is, ignore it and carry on as they were.
b) the other half will have forgotten about it in 4.5 years time and still vote for Corbyn regardless.
Cobnapint said:
b) the other half will have forgotten about it in 4.5 years time and still vote for Corbyn regardless.
Why 4.5 years? It could be that May is expecting there to be another election long before that. Whether she expects to be fighting it as Conservative leader is a different matter.
Smollet said:
Very true. Blair made Labour into Tory lite to get in. Different kettle of fish these days though.
Yup, May has made the conservatives into Labour lite to get in. Same old middle ground politics. Right wingers on here don’t like May, old labour supporters didn’t like Blair,
Labour then swung to the left making them unelectable. I expect the conservatives will swing more to the right after getting rid of May.
Labour then find a centrist candidate and off we go again, .
Blair is much like Cameron and May politically, just a bit more dishonest and with more religious zeal.
El stovey said:
...
Blair is much like Cameron and May politically, just a bit more dishonest and with more religious zeal.
I wonder whether history will suggest he's not that much different at all (Cameron had a dishonest streak, and May's not exactly agnostic).Blair is much like Cameron and May politically, just a bit more dishonest and with more religious zeal.
And then people wonder why the likes of Trump get elected, with "proper" politicians like that.
Murph7355 said:
I wonder whether history will suggest he's not that much different at all (Cameron had a dishonest streak, and May's not exactly agnostic).
And then people wonder why the likes of Trump get elected, with "proper" politicians like that.
Next time when you need to see a specialist doctor go and see philip green instead, it would be the same thing, whats the worst that can happen ? And then people wonder why the likes of Trump get elected, with "proper" politicians like that.
What you are saying is just populist bs, its sad people think in this way
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