North Korea - how serious should we take them?

North Korea - how serious should we take them?

Author
Discussion

Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Friday 21st April 2017
quotequote all
Efbe said:
There are very few defectors from NK, which I find really odd.
Not really. They have armed border patrols, and the consequences of getting caught are cataclysmic. Death for you (if you are lucky) and severe punishment for your family.

Look what he did to his half brother.

BoRED S2upid

19,641 posts

239 months

Friday 21st April 2017
quotequote all
Efbe said:
No they really don't.

There is a growing middle class in Pyongyang that are starting to slowly see this, but 99% of his people love him dearly.

The POV is this: He, like his father and father before him has saved them. He is single handedly stopping the evil western empire of the USA from overrunning their country by developing defense systems that scare the US off.
He clothes them, feeds them, houses them, educates them DESPITE the best efforts of the US Empire to stop him.
They are the greatest nation on earth, the purest, the most untouched by the evil US empire which is arrogant and selfish, walking oer the world for their own benefit.

The only way they would know anything different is if they had perspective, which they don't.

If they did hate him so much, would they not leave!
If they only knew of the culinary delights the USA could bring them! Imagine a country without a McDonalds.

gruffalo

7,509 posts

225 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
quotequote all
Now North Korea has arrested and detained a US citizen, just to give the US a little dig in the ribs and threatened Australia with a nuclear strike if they remain an Ally of the US.

They really are trying to cause a st storm aren't they!!

"North Korea has said it is ready to sink the Carl Vinson, and on Sunday said it would strike Australia with nuclear weapons if it remained an ally of the United States."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39683518

China needs to put him back in his box and soon.


jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
quotequote all
gruffalo said:
Now North Korea has arrested and detained a US citizen, just to give the US a little dig in the ribs and threatened Australia with a nuclear strike if they remain an Ally of the US.

They really are trying to cause a st storm aren't they!!

"North Korea has said it is ready to sink the Carl Vinson, and on Sunday said it would strike Australia with nuclear weapons if it remained an ally of the United States."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39683518

China needs to put him back in his box and soon.
Not sure why anyone would want to go there even if they think they are at no risk.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
quotequote all
"An American citizen has been detained in North Korea as he tried to leave the country, South Korean media say.
The man was identified only by his surname, Kim."

Well that narrows it down.

Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
quotequote all
gruffalo said:
Now North Korea has arrested and detained a US citizen, just to give the US a little dig in the ribs and threatened Australia with a nuclear strike if they remain an Ally of the US.

They really are trying to cause a st storm aren't they!!

"North Korea has said it is ready to sink the Carl Vinson, and on Sunday said it would strike Australia with nuclear weapons if it remained an ally of the United States."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39683518

China needs to put him back in his box and soon.
China won't lift a finger.

It'll have to be the US and others. If he's genuinely threatened Australia, then wtf...?

hidetheelephants

23,754 posts

192 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
quotequote all
Cobnapint said:
gruffalo said:
Now North Korea has arrested and detained a US citizen, just to give the US a little dig in the ribs and threatened Australia with a nuclear strike if they remain an Ally of the US.

They really are trying to cause a st storm aren't they!!

"North Korea has said it is ready to sink the Carl Vinson, and on Sunday said it would strike Australia with nuclear weapons if it remained an ally of the United States."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39683518

China needs to put him back in his box and soon.
China won't lift a finger.

It'll have to be the US and others. If he's genuinely threatened Australia, then wtf...?
That's potentially an interesting development; the Chinese economy is significantly dependent upon Australian raw materials, the threat of an embargo would be a big stick in terms of encouraging China to do something about fatty Kim.

srebbe64

13,021 posts

236 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
quotequote all
Efbe said:
Robertj21a said:
Channel 4 'Unreported World' has just had 30 mins on North Korean defectors now living in South Korea - very interesting.
It's a difficult one.

People that defect, by their very nature will have a more negative view of what they have defected from than anyone else.
But they will also have needed the means to defect, and so from a country like NK are more likely to have been from the ruling classes.

These people will also have made a career post defection of selling their story, so it has to be a good one.
There are very few defectors from NK, which I find really odd.

Either NK has amazing security against defectors. I find this strange because they have quite a big fishing community, which have every option to defect to Chinese mainland.
Or, the people just don't realise how bad a situation they are in. This is much more likely. With no internet, a controlled intranet and state run media/news outlets/radio they will only ever hear the party line.

You could liken it to the fact that no British citizen has ever defected to Mars. Maybe we could, but we just don't know we can. Ok it's a bad analogy, but you get the idea.
I used to like Snickers but I defected to Mars.

Pommygranite

14,229 posts

215 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
Cobnapint said:
gruffalo said:
Now North Korea has arrested and detained a US citizen, just to give the US a little dig in the ribs and threatened Australia with a nuclear strike if they remain an Ally of the US.

They really are trying to cause a st storm aren't they!!

"North Korea has said it is ready to sink the Carl Vinson, and on Sunday said it would strike Australia with nuclear weapons if it remained an ally of the United States."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39683518

China needs to put him back in his box and soon.
China won't lift a finger.

It'll have to be the US and others. If he's genuinely threatened Australia, then wtf...?
That's potentially an interesting development; the Chinese economy is significantly dependent upon Australian raw materials, the threat of an embargo would be a big stick in terms of encouraging China to do something about fatty Kim.
Darwin, the nearest city to Pyongyang is 5900kms away and the furthest they can throw anything is 3500kms.

I could throw a stone out of my window here in Perth and have a better chance of hitting Darwin.

Even if he could hit it there's fk all there, all hell do is take out a few backpackers, a couple of crocs and a pub.



johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

163 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
quotequote all
it just shows how useless the UN is when a little st like this can threaten the entire world's future.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
quotequote all
Pommygranite said:
Darwin, the nearest city to Pyongyang is 5900kms away and the furthest they can throw anything is 3500kms.

I could throw a stone out of my window here in Perth and have a better chance of hitting Darwin.

Even if he could hit it there's fk all there, all hell do is take out a few backpackers, a couple of crocs and a pub.
A PUB.........?

Oh, no, woe....not a pub.

Can't you do something, like send Natalie Bennett to blow up the fat little craptard?

hidetheelephants

23,754 posts

192 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Pommygranite said:
Darwin, the nearest city to Pyongyang is 5900kms away and the furthest they can throw anything is 3500kms.

I could throw a stone out of my window here in Perth and have a better chance of hitting Darwin.

Even if he could hit it there's fk all there, all hell do is take out a few backpackers, a couple of crocs and a pub.
Never underestimate the importance of the pub to the average Australian.

RBH58

969 posts

134 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
That's potentially an interesting development; the Chinese economy is significantly dependent upon Australian raw materials, the threat of an embargo would be a big stick in terms of encouraging China to do something about fatty Kim.
Australia isn't going to do anything that threatens its largest trading partner. But it can act as a intermediary between the US and China and I'm sure that the Australian government have been urging China (behind the scenes) to get involved in dealing with Fat Boy.

Efbe

9,251 posts

165 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
RBH58 said:
hidetheelephants said:
That's potentially an interesting development; the Chinese economy is significantly dependent upon Australian raw materials, the threat of an embargo would be a big stick in terms of encouraging China to do something about fatty Kim.
Australia isn't going to do anything that threatens its largest trading partner. But it can act as a intermediary between the US and China and I'm sure that the Australian government have been urging China (behind the scenes) to get involved in dealing with Fat Boy.
We exported many things to Australia. Diplomacy and Negotiation were not one of them biggrin

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
That's potentially an interesting development; the Chinese economy is significantly dependent upon Australian raw materials, the threat of an embargo would be a big stick in terms of encouraging China to do something about fatty Kim.
An embargo for not attacking or forcing another country to do something?
Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

Likes Fast Cars

2,769 posts

164 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Fat Boy's latest threats will elicit a reaction one way or another. Australia is holding firm against Fatty's threats, and there is some pressure / discussions ongoing among Australia, USA, and China although the risk remains that Fatty could just get an itchy finger and do something very stupid such as launch at the US fleet which he is threatening to do right now. What this will test is the effectiveness of and the anti-missile shield systems.

As someone said the current range of NK missiles wouldn't reach Darwin so no wukkers, the pub should be OK for a little while longer.

moustachebandit

1,264 posts

142 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Efbe said:
Robertj21a said:
Channel 4 'Unreported World' has just had 30 mins on North Korean defectors now living in South Korea - very interesting.
It's a difficult one.

People that defect, by their very nature will have a more negative view of what they have defected from than anyone else.
But they will also have needed the means to defect, and so from a country like NK are more likely to have been from the ruling classes.

These people will also have made a career post defection of selling their story, so it has to be a good one.
There are very few defectors from NK, which I find really odd.

Either NK has amazing security against defectors. I find this strange because they have quite a big fishing community, which have every option to defect to Chinese mainland.
Or, the people just don't realise how bad a situation they are in. This is much more likely. With no internet, a controlled intranet and state run media/news outlets/radio they will only ever hear the party line.

You could liken it to the fact that no British citizen has ever defected to Mars. Maybe we could, but we just don't know we can. Ok it's a bad analogy, but you get the idea.
Defectors usually have to spend around a year in SK rehabilitation centres as they struggle to adapt to normal life, and in a lot of instances view SK life negatively. Defectors report a lot of resentment towards the outside world. In some instances people feel so strongly they defect back to NK - usually to their death.

Not everyone who defects writes a book - there are a lot of defectors who have either made a life for themselves outside of SK or have just integrated into their new lives, buy a home, have a job. SK gifts a decent sum of money to NK defectors so they can start a new life. The reason some do write books is because so little is known about NK and because their escape is usually something out of James Bond and shows the harsh reality of living in NK.

There are defectors at all levels. But its also wrong to assume most defectors are the ruling classes, its the opposite, its the poor with nothing to loose that risk their lives to leave the country, rather than the comfortable Pyongyang elite.

Its also not odd that that the number of defectors for NK is low - the country is a prison. It's very good at keeping people out and people in. Defectors cant cross from the South because of the 34th parallel and the fact that the seas around NK are heavily policed. Most defectors cross into China over the Yalu River which is no small feat - crossing the river is one thing, but NK also has watch towers along the border and guard patrols on both sides of the river. If you are seen you are shot, thats if you dont drown, or die from exposure.

China also has an arrangement with NK that any North Koreans are returned to NK (to face political rehabilitation, work camps, or execution). So not everyone who defects ever makes it. North Koreans stick out like a sore thumb in China, they dont speak the language and their clothes are a massive give away.

Getting to the border with China is also very hard as they have travel permits. They cant just hop in the car (they dont have) and travel across the country to escape. So in a lot of instances they have to try and smuggle themselves across the country, hiding in trucks, riding bikes or just walking it. If they get caught, wrong place, wrong papers, no travel permit then they get sent to a work camp.

One other reason why defector rates are low is because NK operates a 3 generations policy. Say for example if you lived in NK and your brother defected. It would result in you, your parents, and your children being incarcerated in a work camp. So people that do defect usually also leave their relatives behind to suffer the consequences. If you had the perfect chance to escape, but it would mean you leave your wife and children behind to be worked to death woul you even attempt it?

NK has Stazi levels of paranoia which means that neighbours spy on other neighbours, parents report on children - so even planning to defect can land you in a work camp if you tell the wrong person.

The people of NK know their situation is dire, they just cant do much about it. Remember millions died during the famine they had in the mid 90's. Bodies littered the streets as people starved to death. They know they aren't living in the socialist dreamland that their media claims it to be.





scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
jamoor said:
hidetheelephants said:
That's potentially an interesting development; the Chinese economy is significantly dependent upon Australian raw materials, the threat of an embargo would be a big stick in terms of encouraging China to do something about fatty Kim.
An embargo for not attacking or forcing another country to do something?
Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?
hehe

hidetheelephants

23,754 posts

192 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
jamoor said:
hidetheelephants said:
That's potentially an interesting development; the Chinese economy is significantly dependent upon Australian raw materials, the threat of an embargo would be a big stick in terms of encouraging China to do something about fatty Kim.
An embargo for not attacking or forcing another country to do something?
Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?
In diplomacyland nothing is ridiculous, trade and economic interdependency means the dance look can look pretty illogical from the outside.

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
Juche is pretty much a theology and his father and grandfather are its deities; whether they truly believe is academic as the practical outcome is the same.
I don't think they are deities; they are touted as such by the regime but I don't think that the people actually believe they are. Like I say, if the people revere the Kim family then why the need for prison/forced labour/punishment camps? The Japanese under the Emperor didn't need them because the Emperor was genuinely believed to be a living God.

Fat lad isn't. He's just the psycho who calls the shots.