Hong kong protests - Huge

[anonymous-user]

FourWheelDrift said:

AP News 1996 said:

Prime Minister John Major, seeking to dispel the notion that Britain’s role in Hong Kong is over, gave an unequivocal pledge today to hold China to its commitments after it recovers the colony next year.

"Hong Kong will never have to walk alone,? he promised. If China breached the 1984 treaty it signed with Britain on the handover of Hong Kong, we would mobilise the international community and pursue every legal and other avenue available to us,? he said in a speech to Hong Kong business leaders.

"We are prepared to guarantee, repeat to guarantee, admission and settlement if at any time after July 1, 1997, they were to come under pressure to leave Hong Kong,? he said.

https://www.apnews.com/a9835c28b911954a02cb1303ca5...

Instead it seems we've armed the chinese with the tools to use against the protesters - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug...

In the rest of that article, John Major referred to Hong Kongers on non-Chinese origin, who would be rendered stateless due to Chinese nationality laws. Between 1997 and 2000, the UK and China operated a commission that provided a level of oversight towards the implementation of Basic Law. Thats all ended. Britain has no rights in Hong Kong. Threats to go to the UN or an International Court will result in what? The agreement being torn up, and the British garrisoon allowed to take up position again at Osborne Barracks, Gun Club Hill and other places agian? Of course not. The protestors are being a bit naive. For all its criticisms, the Hong Kong Police are a better outfit than the mob waiting in their armoured cars across the border. To an extent, I sympathise with the Chief Executive, as she appeals for calm, as she knows Beijing would have no hesitation in sweeping aside the Hong Kong police and government, and enforce direct rule, enforced by goons from northern China, who don't come from the developed shiney cities, and probably have a low regard for what they will see as whining HKers.

HK has seen this before; in 56 and 67, there was wide spread rioting, instigated by Beijing, and similarly youthful looking protestors. I noticed, back then, the Royal HK Police had not only the usual nightsticks, and rubber/wooden bullets, but were also clearly armed with Sterling SMGs, M1 Carbines, and possibly 303s with fixed bayonets (or was that the Royal Hong Kong Regiment in support?).

If we don't supply the Hong Kong police force with equipment, then the PRC will, and it will further integrate the Hong Kong police into the regular Chinese paramilitary forces.

[funkyrobot]

Looks mental. They only just managed to get an injured man out.

[NRS]

Been watching it closely, and it looks a bit crazy. I'm off to Beijing this Friday, and then travelling around China to end up in HK around mid-September. Wondering how it's going to go by then (on a personal level)...

[Ian Geary]

I wonder if the HK protesters have really thought this through.

They obviously care about it deeply, and don't have any other method to.express their views.

But they must know that even raising international awareness (the best they can hope for) will achieve nothing.

China can do what it likes. Russia can do what it likes. Saudi Arabia can.do what it likes. The international community has no ability to do anything other that tut and make sorry sounding noises.

I think the Chinese are playing the waiting game I think to both show how caring/ tolerant they can be, and whether the protesters go back to college / uni.

But at some point the protesters will "cross the Rubicon" giving the PRC army the legitimacy they need to move in and "help" restore order.

Then I think HK residents wish they had Carrie back.

Shame, but inevitable.

Ps. Blaming Sir John a bit pointless..he could only play the hand he was dealt, which since the UK bankrupted itself winning WW2, has very few decent cards in it

[anonymous-user]

ash73 said:

Ian Geary said:

Ps. Blaming Sir John a bit pointless..he could only play the hand he was dealt, which since the UK bankrupted itself winning WW2, has very few decent cards in it

I still don't quite understand how we won the war and ended up with so little to show for it.

I know, if the nazis had won they were going to have that thousand year empire.

[Art0ir]

There's videos circulating on Twitter of an apparent mass mobilisation of troops just North of HK, in Shenzen.

May be nonsense but not surprising if real.

Thread here

https://twitter.com/AlexandreKrausz/status/1160947...

[NRS]

The Chinese controlled media outlets have been putting out videos of APCs etc moving.

https://twitter.com/WilliamsJon/status/11609060311...

Protesters in the airport singing Les Mis Do you hear the people sing. I really hope it doesn't turn out the same as the book/musical.

[anonymous-user]

ash73 said:

I still don't quite understand how we won the war and ended up with so little to show for it.

WW2 was about survival, not about profit. Not taxing Germany to pay off the UK debt was a decision taken to allow peace to take hold long term.

UK paid a huge price in blood and treasure to free Europe from a tyrannical future. What we have to show for it is the world we now live in.

[smack]

I was watching a feed of the protest today, think after the Police let lose with CS Spray, and two police got cornered, one was down and injured pulled his revolver. If he fired, I hate to think what would have happened next.

Sadly, I don't think it will be long for Beijing to take over HK. I hope it stays the way it is, but I doubt it.

[TheGuru]

ash73 said:

I still don't quite understand how we won the war and ended up with so little to show for it.

You won freedom

It is a bit galling I guess that two of the biggest and cruellest agressors are now incredibly successful countries (Germany and Japan) with objectively better societies than the 'victors' of WW2 (excluding the USA)

[Coolbanana]

jsf said:

WW2 was about survival, not about profit. Not taxing Germany to pay off the UK debt was a decision taken to allow peace to take hold long term.

UK paid a huge price in blood and treasure to free Europe from a tyrannical future. What we have to show for it is the world we now live in.

The UK had zero choice in the matter really. It was fight or be crushed. If not for its Allies, the USA chiefly, but also the Commonwealth in Oz and SA, plus European Resistance, the UK would have been invaded and taken over.

I'm always surprised at how many in the UK appear to think that the UK single-handedly saved Europe and defeated the tyranny of Hitler when the reality is that it was hanging on by virtue of being an island until, just in time, the USA et al saved it.

Winning WW2 was a collective effort by the Allies - not a UK one alone.

The peace that followed has been very successful to date, the fact Germany and Japan have emerged to become powerhouses again is testament to the ordinary people of those Nations being incredibly industrious and organised.

Not that the UK has fared badly, it has also risen to become a wealthy Nation too albeit, yes, WW2 did result in the last of Empire, but that was inevitable, war or no war.

[stuckmojo]

Interesting scenario. I think China would want to move in and impose rule, but the consequences on the markets would be catastrophic. I don't for a second believe the wellbeing and opinion of the people of HK is in their mind.

Has risk profile for HK based companies changed recently?


Edited for inaccuracy

[rodericb]

There are a lot of HK and mainlander university students in Australia and they've been kicking off. https://www.news.com.au/national/hong-kong-protest...

It's obviously making the news in Australia, as has other China infiltration types of things, and the happenings on the weekly enlightened persons debate on the ABC discussed same and prompted this opinion piece: https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/joe-hild...

[rodericb]

stuckmojo said:

Interesting scenario. I think China would want to move in and impose rule, but the consequences on the markets would be catastrophic. I don't for a second believe the wellbeing and opinion of the people of HK is in their mind.

Has risk profile for HK based companies changed recently?


Edited for inaccuracy

Dunno about the timing of this move: https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/30...

But what is probably closer to home is that the CEO or something of Cathay Pacific "resigned" last week: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/cathay-pacific-s-ceo-r...

[wisbech]

jsf said:

WW2 was about survival, not about profit. Not taxing Germany to pay off the UK debt was a decision taken to allow peace to take hold long term.

UK paid a huge price in blood and treasure to free Europe from a tyrannical future. What we have to show for it is the world we now live in.

China also was on the winning side in WW2.

[alfaman]

rodericb said:

Dunno about the timing of this move: https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/30...

But what is probably closer to home is that the CEO or something of Cathay Pacific "resigned" last week: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/cathay-pacific-s-ceo-r...

The CEO ‘resignation’ is quite bad ... very well regarded across the industry.

Obvious political interference from China ( a Chinese airline owns 30% of Cathay) ... the communist party obviously didn’t like some of the employees supporting freedom and democracy in HK.

I wonder if China threatened to remove their license to land in China.

bully boy tactics

[anonymous-user]

The real value of democracy is sadly being illustrated in Hong Kong.

[FourWheelDrift]

wisbech said:

jsf said:

WW2 was about survival, not about profit. Not taxing Germany to pay off the UK debt was a decision taken to allow peace to take hold long term.

UK paid a huge price in blood and treasure to free Europe from a tyrannical future. What we have to show for it is the world we now live in.

China also was on the winning side in WW2.

That winning China now resides in Taiwan.

[BlackLabel]

Almost a quarter of Hong Kong’s population took part in yesterday’s protests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-493862...

[anonymous-user]

Art0ir said:

There's videos circulating on Twitter of an apparent mass mobilisation of troops just North of HK, in Shenzen.

May be nonsense but not surprising if real.

Thread here

https://twitter.com/AlexandreKrausz/status/1160947...

They've been showing off their "riot forks"





Apparently introduced after a spate of knife attacks, and now on sale, in various configurations. Of course, they didn't invent the things. Man Catchers are a medieval European design, and still used in Japan, as the sasumata.