scotland to reduce Drink Drive limit

[Edinburger]

tannhauser said:

RogueTrooper said:

Drumroll said:

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Care to actually link that statement to some actual evidence? Should be easy for you as there is "repeated studies"

The original study/studies of which I'm aware somewhat predate the internet, by decades, so might not be so easy to link to.

Have a look into the "Borkenstein dip" - it's interesting historical reading for those with an interest in drink-driving legislation or enforcement.

I too am very interested in this - I have heard it before, it kind of makes sense and indeed often I feel a lot more alert, confident and coordinated after perhaps one drink, which then of course tails off rapidly the more I have - obviously in non-driving situations mind!

I was also going to cry the (rather tiresome!) "source?!" tagline, however yes it probably pre-dates the internet, and it's obviously something that people wouldn't want to admit or publicise, with the fear of appearing to advocate any element of having a drink and driving as being OK.

Happy to see this bks Scottish law has made sweet FA difference. Tossers.

Here's the drink drive limits across Europe.



Still think the "Scottish law" is "bks"?

[Rovinghawk]

Edinburger said:

Why do you think should drink and drive?

Very provocative phrasing. I don't think one "should" drink & drive but I do think that lowering the limit is insignificant virtue signalling.

Edinburger said:

Why do you think Scotland's limit is now in line with most of the rest of Europe?

Because it's an interfering nanny state which acts without thinking. It's notable that they haven't reduced the penalties to match Europe, just the limits. Our system has a different method, ie stronger enforcement of a higher limt- Europe isn't 'better', just different.

Edinburger said:

Question: would you let your kids go in the car with someone who has had a pint or two?

Another bit of provocative phrasing. Whilst I wouldn't let kids in a car with a drunk driver, I wouldn't see major harm with a driver who'd consumed insufficient to cause impairment.

Drink driving is wrong & the perpetrators deserve draconian punishment but some leeway must be given before such punishment can be enacted. If it's not a problem then let's not make it a problem.

[tannhauser]

Edinburger said:

Here's the drink drive limits across Europe.



Still think the "Scottish law" is "bks"?

Yes I do. I think you spout a lot of it too.

[NomduJour]

Ah, Europe - fantastic, cosmopolitan, progressive Europe! They clearly know what’s good for us.

People having a pint with their dinner aren’t a problem, so why the desire to interfere with and control their existence? Do you think that all the people who currently drive after a skinful will pause for reflection on news of a zero limit, and suddenly reassess and change their behaviour?

[Edinburger]

NomduJour said:

Edinburger said:

That's just being stupid.

Would you get on a plane if the pilot has just had a couple of pints?

It’s a stupid analogy, but I’d wager you’d never know the difference in such a controlled environment.

It's not a stupid analogy!

If a surgeon had a couple of pints before your operation, would you be happy?

[Nickgnome]

Edinburger said:

Here's the drink drive limits across Europe.



Still think the "Scottish law" is "bks"?

No I think it is a good and pragmatic start.

I didn’t think ‘if you want a drink don’t drive’. was such an issue to some.

If it wasn’t for the other people caught up in the literal car crash it would be a sensible Darwinian approach to allow those drivers to drink as much as they thought they were capable of taking.

[thetrickcyclist]

Edinburger said:

NomduJour said:

What next? Ban driving if you’ve had an argument with the wife? If you have a cold? With children in the car?

Why not just ban driving altogether - any risk of an accident is surely unacceptable.

That's just being stupid.

It's a plan to make driving as anti social as voting NO in a referendum...

[Nickgnome]

Edinburger said:

It's not a stupid analogy!

If a surgeon had a couple of pints before your operation, would you be happy?

And of course the coach driver taking his kids to school. Not to mention the yummy mummies in their 4x4s on the school run.

[Edinburger]

Rovinghawk said:

Edinburger said:

Why do you think should drink and drive?

Very provocative phrasing. I don't think one "should" drink & drive but I do think that lowering the limit is insignificant virtue signalling.

Edinburger said:

Why do you think Scotland's limit is now in line with most of the rest of Europe?

Because it's an interfering nanny state which acts without thinking. It's notable that they haven't reduced the penalties to match Europe, just the limits. Our system has a different method, ie stronger enforcement of a higher limt- Europe isn't 'better', just different.

Edinburger said:

Question: would you let your kids go in the car with someone who has had a pint or two?

Another bit of provocative phrasing. Whilst I wouldn't let kids in a car with a drunk driver, I wouldn't see major harm with a driver who'd consumed insufficient to cause impairment.

Drink driving is wrong & the perpetrators deserve draconian punishment but some leeway must be given before such punishment can be enacted. If it's not a problem then let's not make it a problem.

You said "lowering the limit is insignificant virtue signalling" and "I wouldn't see major harm with a driver who'd consumed insufficient to cause impairment".

How much alcohol causes impairment? Tonight you might feel fine after three of four. What about tomorrow and the day after?

I'll turn it around: why do you think it's okay for someone to drink after having alcohol?

[Edinburger]

tannhauser said:

Edinburger said:

Here's the drink drive limits across Europe.



Still think the "Scottish law" is "bks"?

Yes I do. I think you spout a lot of it too.

You know me?

Or is that stupid remark all you could think to say?

[Edinburger]

NomduJour said:

Ah, Europe - fantastic, cosmopolitan, progressive Europe! They clearly know what’s good for us.

People having a pint with their dinner aren’t a problem, so why the desire to interfere with and control their existence? Do you think that all the people who currently drive after a skinful will pause for reflection on news of a zero limit, and suddenly reassess and change their behaviour?

No. But I don't think anyone should drink after a pint at any time.

[Edinburger]

Nickgnome said:

Edinburger said:

Here's the drink drive limits across Europe.



Still think the "Scottish law" is "bks"?

No I think it is a good and pragmatic start.

I didn’t think ‘if you want a drink don’t drive’. was such an issue to some.

If it wasn’t for the other people caught up in the literal car crash it would be a sensible Darwinian approach to allow those drivers to drink as much as they thought they were capable of taking.

I know. I've never ever seen the point in "having one". If I'm drinking, I'm drinking. Just having one or two is pointless, to me.

[Rovinghawk]

Nickgnome said:

No I think it is a good and pragmatic start.

A good start to what, exactly? That map doesn't show the tiny detail that penalties for minor infringement are massively higher in UK than abroad.

Compare like with like or don't bother.

Nickgnome said:

I didn’t think ‘if you want a drink don’t drive’. was such an issue to some.

That's not the issue so much as legislation for the emotive sake of it rather than backed up by any form of science or meaningful facts & figures.

Nickgnome said:

If it wasn’t for the other people caught up in the literal car crash it would be a sensible Darwinian approach to allow those drivers to drink as much as they thought they were capable of taking.

You seem to be talking about drunken lunatics rather than those relative moderates who would be caught between the new & old limits. Take the emotion out & look at the facts.

[Nickgnome]

Unfortunately I suspect some on here think it perfectly acceptable to have a pint or two over lunch with wife and Kids and then drive home.

It is a great shame they think so much of themselves and so little of their family and the family of others when so doing.

[Rovinghawk]

Edinburger said:

why do you think it's okay for someone to drink after having alcohol?

Because alcohol dehydrates & they might wish to replace lost liquids.

[Edinburger]

Nickgnome said:

Unfortunately I suspect some on here think it perfectly acceptable to have a pint or two over lunch with wife and Kids and then drive home.

It is a great shame they think so much of themselves and so little of their family and the family of others when so doing.

Agree 100%.

[Edinburger]

Rovinghawk said:

Edinburger said:

why do you think it's okay for someone to drink after having alcohol?

Because alcohol dehydrates & they might wish to replace lost liquids.

LOL very good. I meant drive, obviously.

[Rovinghawk]

Edinburger said:

I've never ever seen the point in "having one". If I'm drinking, I'm drinking. Just having one or two is pointless, to me.

I'm one of those with sufficient self-control to have one followed by soft drinks until it's time to go home, but each to their own.

[Edinburger]

Rovinghawk said:

Nickgnome said:

No I think it is a good and pragmatic start.

A good start to what, exactly? That map doesn't show the tiny detail that penalties for minor infringement are massively higher in UK than abroad.

Compare like with like or don't bother.

Nickgnome said:

I didn’t think ‘if you want a drink don’t drive’. was such an issue to some.

That's not the issue so much as legislation for the emotive sake of it rather than backed up by any form of science or meaningful facts & figures.

Nickgnome said:

If it wasn’t for the other people caught up in the literal car crash it would be a sensible Darwinian approach to allow those drivers to drink as much as they thought they were capable of taking.

You seem to be talking about drunken lunatics rather than those relative moderates who would be caught between the new & old limits. Take the emotion out & look at the facts.

With respect, I think it's you who should look at the facts.

[Edinburger]

Rovinghawk said:

Edinburger said:

I've never ever seen the point in "having one". If I'm drinking, I'm drinking. Just having one or two is pointless, to me.

I'm one of those with sufficient self-control to have one followed by soft drinks until it's time to go home, but each to their own.

But with insufficient self-control to not drink anything at all if you're driving?