Saudi Arabia - should we do business with them?

[scorp]

GT03ROB said:

It's a big ugly world out there & there are some nasty beasts. It would be nice not to have talk to some of those beasts.

Our own little part of it is less than ideal....

....after all any country that allows this should be ridiculed and condemned.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire...

if we wish to take some sort of moral high ground it's usually best to be sure we are clean.

The people committing those crimes are civilians on the fringes of UK society ?

Saudi Arabia regularly commits heinous acts which are state sanctioned.

Invalid comparison.

[GT03ROB]

scorp said:

The people committing those crimes are civilians on the fringes of UK society ?

The people that turned a blind eye to those crimes being committed were instruments of the state & in ding so were as guilty to my mind as those that physically committed them..

scorp said:

Saudi Arabia regularly commits heinous acts which are state sanctioned.

As do many other of our major trading partners. I have no wish to defend the country, but I ask where do you want to draw the line?

[Strocky]

TKF said:

Should we do business with any nation that kills its citizens?

So as long as you kill another country's citizens (and not your own) illegally then the UK conscience is clear?

[GT03ROB]

Strocky said:

TKF said:

Should we do business with any nation that kills its citizens?

So as long as you kill another country's citizens (and not your own) illegally then the UK conscience is clear?

Thats about the size of our morality!!

[JagLover]

Voted yes

People should have the right to live in the manner they choose. In the west we want to live as a secular democracy and don't want to see a medieval religion foisted upon us. In much of the Islamic world SA is an example of how they wish to live and that's fine as well. Live and let live.

Iraq and Afghanistan show the folly of trying to force our way of life on the Islamic world.

[mrtwisty]

Jasandjules said:

Any country that allows this should be ridiculed and condemned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/18744...

Jesus Christ. Animals.

The comparison to the Rotheram scandal - just not comparable to this imo.

[anonymous-user]

mrtwisty said:

Jesus Christ. Animals.

The comparison to the Rotheram scandal - just not comparable to this imo.

The fact that men tried to help the girls and were stopped by the police shows that these people had it in their hearts to do the right thing. That doesn't reflect a society living as it chooses, instead it shows a society living as it is told.

[Smiler.]

GT03ROB said:

scorp said:

The people committing those crimes are civilians on the fringes of UK society ?

The people that turned a blind eye to those crimes being committed were instruments of the state & in ding so were as guilty to my mind as those that physically committed them..

scorp said:

Saudi Arabia regularly commits heinous acts which are state sanctioned.

As do many other of our major trading partners. I have no wish to defend the country, but I ask where do you want to draw the line?

This is what I was getting at. It's a very complex issue for sure.

Hell, if you look at Iran, it's arguable that our own (UK & US) meddling which started in the 50's spawned the regime that they have now.


It's always left me feeling uncomfortable the way our leaders cosy-up to the likes of China - some of the things they do to their citizens would not be tolerated here.

There are many countries who can vie for top of the evil dictatorship challenge. There's just something about Saudi Arabia that I can't quite put mu finger on.

Their atrocities are willingly overlooked & swept under the rug, possibly because they tend to be just below the global outrage radar, possibly because of the money.

And the liberal human rights brigade don't seem that fussed either.

[MrBrightSi]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Last bit is far too true.

[BlackLabel]

So we have this piece of recent news from Saudi Arabia:

article said:

Saudi Arabia to execute juvenile Shiite prisoner by crucifixion

Ali Mohammed al-Nimr, who was 17 years old when he was arrested in February 2012 for joining anti-government protests and allegedly carrying a firearm in Saudi Arabia, is set to be executed by crucifixion, which involves crucifying the body to a pole with nails.

Ali's clemency appeals have been rejected, and he is likely to be executed in a few days despite international outrage.

While Ali was held in a juvenile offenders' facility, human rights organisations claimed that he was tortured into confessing and was also denied access to lawyers.

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/saudi-arabia-execute-juvenile-shiite-prisoner-by-crucifixion-647124

And a few days later this......

article said:

Fury after Saudi Arabia 'chosen to head key UN human rights panel'



The United Nations has been criticised for handing Saudi Arabia a key human rights role - despite the country having “arguably the worst record in the world” on freedoms for women, minorities and dissidents.

Critics, including the wife of imprisoned pro-democracy blogger Raif Badawi – sentenced to 1,000 lashes for blogging about free speech – labelled the appointment “scandalous”, saying it meant “oil trumps human rights”.

Mr Badawi’s wife, Ensaf Haidar, who is leading an international campaign to free her husband, said on Facebook that handing the role to Faisal bin Hassan Trad, Saudi Arabia’s ambassador at the UN in Geneva, was effectively “a green light to start flogging [him] again”.

UN Watch, an independent campaigning NGO, revealed Mr Trad, Saudi Arabia’s ambassador at the UN in Geneva, was elected as chair of a panel of independent experts on the UN Human Rights Council.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/anger-after-saudi-arabia-chosen-to-head-key-un-human-rights-panel-10509716.html


What next I wonder, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi appointed on the UN minorities and gay rights panel?

[AreOut]

UN is a joke

[IainT]

I'd love to see us stop doing business with Saudi but the reality is we can't survive without them with our addiction to oil and low prices.

[Esseesse]

BlackLabel said:

Although I would add that when it comes to the Saudis one thing we should definitely be doing is stopping their funding of Islamic education in this country. Their Wahabi brand of Islam is toxic and shouldn't be promoted in Britain.

^^ This. No state or religious institutions should be allowed to be funded from outside the UK.

[edh]

I thought this was interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02gyz6b/adam...

Explains the US invented / supported Saudi rulers & their exported Wahabiism (plus lots of other stuff)

[BlackLabel]

Saudi Arabia recently offered to build 200 mosques in Germany. What a kind offer. What could possibly go wrong?

TheIndependent said:

Saudi Arabia has reportedly responded to the growing number of people fleeing the Middle East for western Europe – by offering to build 200 mosques in Germany.

Syria’s richer Gulf neighbours have been accused of not doing their fair share in the humanitarian crisis, with Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman and the UAE also keeping their doors firmly shut to asylum-seekers.

According to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, which quoted a report in the Lebanese newspaper Al Diyar, Saudi Arabia would build one mosque for every 100 refugees who entered Germany in extraordinary numbers last weekend.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/saudi-arabia-offers-germany-200-mosques--one-for-every-100-refugees-who-arrived-last-weekend-10495082.html

[968]

JagLover said:

Voted yes

People should have the right to live in the manner they choose. In the west we want to live as a secular democracy and don't want to see a medieval religion foisted upon us. In much of the Islamic world SA is an example of how they wish to live and that's fine as well. Live and let live.

Iraq and Afghanistan show the folly of trying to force our way of life on the Islamic world.

No they don't want to live like SA and your assertion in this post demonstrates the lack of knowledge you have about these people. We should not do business with this terrible regime who are the biggest exporters of violence, extremism and terror in the world. Pragmatism has caused massive problems manifest in the Middle East. People who espouse it and cannot see beyond the short term are responsible for this chaos. The Saudis are pure evil and we have been on the wrong side of their argument with Iran for years and in the meantime they've exported their disgusting perversion of Islam around the world, unfettered by the USA addicted to their oil.

[Blib]

968 said:

No they don't want to live like SA and your assertion in this post demonstrates the lack of knowledge you have about these people. We should not do business with this terrible regime who are the biggest exporters of violence, extremism and terror in the world. Pragmatism has caused massive problems manifest in the Middle East. People who espouse it and cannot see beyond the short term are responsible for this chaos. The Saudis are pure evil and we have been on the wrong side of their argument with Iran for years and in the meantime they've exported their disgusting perversion of Islam around the world, unfettered by the USA addicted to their oil.

This.

[fido]

Yes, but we shouldn't be dependent on them, or as little as possible. Though until the discovery of new shale oil extraction methods this wasn't practical. However I would extend this to any entity that isn't democratically accountable. And this includes the EU.

[Jasandjules]

BlackLabel said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sau...

Why don't they offer to house the 20,000 refugees?

[Halb]

edh said:

I thought this was interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02gyz6b/adam...

Explains the US invented / supported Saudi rulers & their exported Wahabiism (plus lots of other stuff)

Makes fantastic documentaries.