HS2, whats the current status ?

[popeyewhite]

Digga said:

As has been said repeatedly, the benefit of the system has been greatly miss-sold. The real issue for the future is capacity (and also redundancy in case of technical problems or even just routine maintenance) which HS2 does clearly deliver. .

To whom? How exactly will a schoolteacher in rural Cheshire benefit? I'd suggest that the average person north of London won't experience any benefit at all.

[Digga]

popeyewhite said:

Digga said:

As has been said repeatedly, the benefit of the system has been greatly miss-sold. The real issue for the future is capacity (and also redundancy in case of technical problems or even just routine maintenance) which HS2 does clearly deliver. .

To whom? How exactly will a schoolteacher in rural Cheshire benefit? I'd suggest that the average person north of London won't experience any benefit at all.

Talk to people who commute by rail on the West Coast main line. There are people using it every day, the length of it, and experiencing shortages and delays.

[popeyewhite]

Digga said:

popeyewhite said:

Digga said:

As has been said repeatedly, the benefit of the system has been greatly miss-sold. The real issue for the future is capacity (and also redundancy in case of technical problems or even just routine maintenance) which HS2 does clearly deliver. .

To whom? How exactly will a schoolteacher in rural Cheshire benefit? I'd suggest that the average person north of London won't experience any benefit at all.

Talk to people who commute by rail on the West Coast main line. There are people using it every day, the length of it, and experiencing shortages and delays.

How will a non-commuter living up North, like millions of others, benefit from HS2's increased capacity?

[Swervin_Mervin]

Digga said:

popeyewhite said:

Digga said:

As has been said repeatedly, the benefit of the system has been greatly miss-sold. The real issue for the future is capacity (and also redundancy in case of technical problems or even just routine maintenance) which HS2 does clearly deliver. .

To whom? How exactly will a schoolteacher in rural Cheshire benefit? I'd suggest that the average person north of London won't experience any benefit at all.

Talk to people who commute by rail on the West Coast main line. There are people using it every day, the length of it, and experiencing shortages and delays.

And all the local lines serviced off the WCML that are affected by its capacity issues. But this has all been said before and you're just banging you're head on the wall.

There are those who understand its aims, those who didn't but have come to understand its aims, and those who refuse to understand or believe anything that in any way supports the HS2 case.

If only people got so het up about the hundreds of other ways Gov't coffers are burned, in far bigger numbers, with nothing to show for it.

[valiant]

popeyewhite said:

How will a non-commuter living up North, like millions of others, benefit from HS2's increased capacity?

How will a non-commuter living down south, like millions of others, benefit from diverting the money to improve commuter rail services in the north?

[alfaman]

Digga said:

As has been said repeatedly, the benefit of the system has been greatly miss-sold. The real issue for the future is capacity (and also redundancy in case of technical problems or even just routine maintenance) which HS2 does clearly deliver. People already using the route will know fo the many and various issues.

But it’s extremely expensive capacity that is arguably not needed, and in the wrong place.

The so called financial ‘benefits’ are an illusion.

shortening travel time slightly between Birmingham and London - especially without a joined up terminus - just won’t generate monetary benefits or tangible savings.

It is completely unconvincing as a rational business case.

alternatives are cheaper

and arguably it isn’t needed anyway.

Total waste of 100bn

[popeyewhite]

valiant said:

popeyewhite said:

How will a non-commuter living up North, like millions of others, benefit from HS2's increased capacity?

How will a non-commuter living down south, like millions of others, benefit from diverting the money to improve commuter rail services in the north?

Quite. HS2 should be binned.

[popeyewhite]

Swervin_Mervin said:

If only people got so het up about the hundreds of other ways Gov't coffers are burned, in far bigger numbers, with nothing to show for it.

They do. Heathrow.

[wrencho]

The cost would have been much lower if the original plan to put the line into cuttings hadn't been scuppered by NIMBY's in Conservative heartlands forcing the route to be tunneled....

[Sheepshanks]

popeyewhite said:

How will a non-commuter living up North, like millions of others, benefit from HS2's increased capacity?

From the general economic improvement it'll bring?

Specifically, a teacher in Cheshire could also benefit from families moving from the South as the breadwinner(s) will be able to get South more easily as needed for work. I live in a Cheshire village and that already happens to a limited extent, but it's mainly people who are working in London all week.

[Digga]

Swervin_Mervin said:

And all the local lines serviced off the WCML that are affected by its capacity issues. But this has all been said before and you're just banging you're head on the wall.

^This. If you ask people about delays on local train services which share the WCML they will bore the arse off you - the delays and cancellations are regular.

[popeyewhite]

Sheepshanks said:

From the general economic improvement it'll bring?
Specifically, a teacher in Cheshire could also benefit from families moving from the South as the breadwinner(s) will be able to get South more easily as needed for work. I live in a Cheshire village and that already happens to a limited extent, but it's mainly people who are working in London all week.

So a teacher in, say, Warrington, will benefit economically by fuller classes? I'm not convinced! Isn't there already a pretty easy rail link down South anyway? Sure I caught the Euston train last year from Macclesfield, which I won't be able to do with HS2 as the nearest it gets to me is Crewe, 40 minutes away. So in fact the journey to London on HS2 will take longer

[aeropilot]

popeyewhite said:

Swervin_Mervin said:

If only people got so het up about the hundreds of other ways Gov't coffers are burned, in far bigger numbers, with nothing to show for it.

They do. Heathrow.

Huh...?

[Digga]

popeyewhite said:

Sheepshanks said:

From the general economic improvement it'll bring?
Specifically, a teacher in Cheshire could also benefit from families moving from the South as the breadwinner(s) will be able to get South more easily as needed for work. I live in a Cheshire village and that already happens to a limited extent, but it's mainly people who are working in London all week.

So a teacher in, say, Warrington, will benefit economically by fuller classes? I'm not convinced! Isn't there already a pretty easy rail link down South anyway? Sure I caught the Euston train last year from Macclesfield, which I won't be able to do with HS2 as the nearest it gets to me is Crewe, 40 minutes away. So in fact the journey to London on HS2 will take longer

Catch the London train from Macc often enough and you would realise there are a lot of times when you'd be lucky to get a seat, certainly not unless you;d book way, way in advance. That is the issue. Just because you do not personally see or experience it, does not mean it does not exist. Do you see?

[popeyewhite]

Digga said:

popeyewhite said:

Sheepshanks said:

From the general economic improvement it'll bring?
Specifically, a teacher in Cheshire could also benefit from families moving from the South as the breadwinner(s) will be able to get South more easily as needed for work. I live in a Cheshire village and that already happens to a limited extent, but it's mainly people who are working in London all week.

So a teacher in, say, Warrington, will benefit economically by fuller classes? I'm not convinced! Isn't there already a pretty easy rail link down South anyway? Sure I caught the Euston train last year from Macclesfield, which I won't be able to do with HS2 as the nearest it gets to me is Crewe, 40 minutes away. So in fact the journey to London on HS2 will take longer

Catch the London train from Macc often enough and you would realise there are a lot of times when you'd be lucky to get a seat, certainly not unless you;d book way, way in advance. That is the issue. Just because you do not personally see or experience it, does not mean it does not exist. Do you see?

I see a wise man would book a seat. Not really worth tearing the whole country up and spending billions on though is it?

[Googie]

Sheepshanks said:

popeyewhite said:

How will a non-commuter living up North, like millions of others, benefit from HS2's increased capacity?

From the general economic improvement it'll bring?

Specifically, a teacher in Cheshire could also benefit from families moving from the South as the breadwinner(s) will be able to get South more easily as needed for work. I live in a Cheshire village and that already happens to a limited extent, but it's mainly people who are working in London all week.

This is one of the many reasons why Hs2 should be cancelled - making The
South more commutable will not regenerate The North

[Sheepshanks]

popeyewhite said:

So a teacher in, say, Warrington, will benefit economically by fuller classes?

Not 'fuller classes', but classes. The North will gradually fade away.

[abzmike]

Googie said:

This is one of the many reasons why Hs2 should be cancelled - making The
South more commutable will not regenerate The North

Yes... The gravity of the South is too great. Just because it is easier to get to the North, will not make business go there.
Some kind of fundamental rebalancing of the geography of the national economy is required, and that isn't going to happen any time soon, and certainly won't be driven by this railway.

[valiant]

popeyewhite said:

Digga said:

popeyewhite said:

Sheepshanks said:

From the general economic improvement it'll bring?
Specifically, a teacher in Cheshire could also benefit from families moving from the South as the breadwinner(s) will be able to get South more easily as needed for work. I live in a Cheshire village and that already happens to a limited extent, but it's mainly people who are working in London all week.

So a teacher in, say, Warrington, will benefit economically by fuller classes? I'm not convinced! Isn't there already a pretty easy rail link down South anyway? Sure I caught the Euston train last year from Macclesfield, which I won't be able to do with HS2 as the nearest it gets to me is Crewe, 40 minutes away. So in fact the journey to London on HS2 will take longer

Catch the London train from Macc often enough and you would realise there are a lot of times when you'd be lucky to get a seat, certainly not unless you;d book way, way in advance. That is the issue. Just because you do not personally see or experience it, does not mean it does not exist. Do you see?

I see a wise man would book a seat. Not really worth tearing the whole country up and spending billions on though is it?

Rail traffic is growing. Services are getting more stretched each year. WCML, ECML, GEML, etc are all approaching or are at capacity today. As I said earlier, fiddling with bits here and there are only pushing the can down the road and not a long term solution to the problems we face. At some point the orange army will have to start laying rails.

You’re quick to dismiss HS2 (and I also have some reservations with it) but what is your practical solution? It’s easy to dismiss but not so easy to provide a sensible alternative.

[Killer2005]

Reported today that HS2 could be cut north of Birmingham to save £10bn

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/transport/gra...