HS2, whats the current status ?

HS2, whats the current status ?

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Discussion

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
Blue62 - not unusual and a complete bo**ocks of an approach.

If you apply pressure in the right places though it needn't be the case.

I recommend that your friends/contacts get them selves a CPO specialist representative.

Most fees will be paid for (retrospectively, I admit) by HS2

I happen to know a good one wink

FourWheelDrift

88,375 posts

283 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
Someone needs to drop some newts and bats along the route plan.

towser44

3,472 posts

114 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
Swervin_Mervin said:
FredClogs said:
hornetrider said:
Did I hear on the wireless this morning that the projected journey time from Manchester to London was 1hr 8 mins? Regardless of the rights and wrongs, that's pretty impressive. I can well imagine lots of people working in the City daily 'commuting' from the North.... pushing up house prices scratchchin
It's not manchester as such that's prposed for the HS2, it's manchester airport area, which is close to large areas of already quite well priced housing. Which sort of highlights my point, we could end up with people from South Manchester and Cheshire commuting to London rather than into manchester. Stockport, Wilmslow or Altrincham into Mancherster is already a 45 minute commute in rush hour because local infrastructure is so bad (and to be fair I imagine Manchester is better than other cities because the tram isn't half bad at all to many areas)
It's a 45 minute commute from those areas into Manchester because the sheer volume of traffic makes it so. There are several 4 lane arterial routes in and all suffer the same congestion issues - it's a city with demand, so that's always going to be a problem.

As for commuting to London, many already do. There's good reason why the Manchester to London service stops at Stockport and Wilmslow, and you only have to get on the early trains between 6-7am to get an idea of the demographic of those commuting. That wouldn't change with HS2 stopping at the Airport - you might just shift the inflated house prices a little further west from the Wilmslow and Alderley Edge areas to the Bowdon and Hale areas
Yep, occasionally I have to go to London for work and the first train out of Manchester which goes via Macclesfield and Stoke and gets to Euston before 9am is already packed before I even get on it at Macclesfield where another load of passengers are waiting to get on.

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
HS2 have actually just safeguarded the route without any prior consultation, which is very naughty indeed.


Let's put it this way - HS2 are now an automatic consultee with a veto on any planning application submitted on that land. Even if it was already in the system.

And if it increases its value - they will likely say no.

Naughty, naughty.

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
There's an echo in here...


Vocal Minority said:
MarshPhantom said:
Vocal Minority said:
MarshPhantom said:
HS2 lovers, can anyone explain why the rest of the country can claim compensation for having their life ruined by HS2 when no one in London can?
MP - I work a lot a lot with affected landowners for HS2 so know my way around the Compensation side of it.

Can you explain in a little more detail what you are referring to, because I am not sure. If you can be more precise hopefully I will be able to demystify it a bit?
You can claim compo if your house is within a certain distance from the trainline. The closer it is the more you get.

This is very much not the case anywhere in London.
You are referring to something called the Rural Protection Zone

This is one of the many compensation schemes that HS2 have made available. It is available for residential properties, farms and commercial properties with a rateable value of under £38,400 - in rural areas. This is a discretionary scheme, so goes above and beyond what the law demands, but only sort of. I think their logic is that in London/Birmingham/Leeds etc, the general back ground noise will be such that a slow moving train will be less of an embuggerance compared to what already is there. However a train at full speed in rural Warwickshire will have a more profound affect. – Its just cheaper to offer it to rural as well.

I can't remember what the payment is, but its for people 120 metres from the centreline of the railway. However, this is a sort of advanced payment really, as it will be taken off any other compensation HS2 offer (the payment itself is up to a certain level, you won’t get bunged more than your property is worth).

It's basically a little tickle up front to quell open rebellion

HOWEVER – those in the city are protected by what we call the compensation code – that is the current melange of various laws and act of parliament and judicial precedents in case law. This is far from perfect, and is being improved slowly over time (though still has a way to go).

So everyone affected by the scheme will be compensated, no matter where they live. Granted the compensation will be slow to materialise, and it varies depending on how you are affected, but everyone affected is entitled to compensation under law.

Though I agree that this law has a long way to go before it is truly fit for purpose (and there are groups working on this all the time) – the basic safety net is there for all.



Edited by Vocal Minority on Tuesday 15th November 14:08

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

136 months

Tuesday 15th November 2016
quotequote all
Vocal Minority said:
HS2 have actually just safeguarded the route without any prior consultation, which is very naughty indeed.


Let's put it this way - HS2 are now an automatic consultee with a veto on any planning application submitted on that land. Even if it was already in the system.

And if it increases its value - they will likely say no.

Naughty, naughty.
The Tories appear to be utterly out of control, not just on this, either.

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
quotequote all
Well it does have (broadly) cross party support.

And also, you cannot blame the Tories really to be honest.

The project is run by HS2 Limited, which admittedly are related to the department for transport.

And whilst I think they have done insufficient consultation - what they have done is legal - and one could argue in the best interest of the public purse. So you can't exactly say they have gone to fair,

Additionally there were several prominent Tories on the parliamentary select committee.

Some of their amendments and demands of HS2 after the committee hearings were conspicuously in excess of the law in their endeavours to be fair (as were the contribtutions from Labour and Lib Dem MPs).

Ian Mearns for Middlesborough was a particular favourite of mine in ensuring that everyone got a fair crack and weren't bamboozled by the HS2 QCs. Sir Peter Bottomley also batted a good innings when I was there - granted only 3 occasions,

So it's a bit disingenuous to call the Tories out of control over this IMHO

Blue62

8,745 posts

151 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
quotequote all
Vocal Minority said:
Well it does have (broadly) cross party support.

And also, you cannot blame the Tories really to be honest.

The project is run by HS2 Limited, which admittedly are related to the department for transport.

And whilst I think they have done insufficient consultation - what they have done is legal - and one could argue in the best interest of the public purse. So you can't exactly say they have gone to fair,

Additionally there were several prominent Tories on the parliamentary select committee.

Some of their amendments and demands of HS2 after the committee hearings were conspicuously in excess of the law in their endeavours to be fair (as were the contribtutions from Labour and Lib Dem MPs).

Ian Mearns for Middlesborough was a particular favourite of mine in ensuring that everyone got a fair crack and weren't bamboozled by the HS2 QCs. Sir Peter Bottomley also batted a good innings when I was there - granted only 3 occasions,

So it's a bit disingenuous to call the Tories out of control over this IMHO
You sound like you're pretty well informed, I understand that this is a public motoring forum but could you comment on when you think an announcement is likely regarding a definite go ahead?

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
quotequote all
Well, if you ask the government they insist it will go ahead - and that's all they can really do before Royal assent - it's way through the House is pretty clear I think.

Phase 1 is certain in my opinion. We'll get Royal Assent in Q1 '17 - and they want to get spades in the ground ASAP afterwards. In my dealing with them they have always been clear in that.

Yesterday's safeguarding of the route is a very clear statement of intent for phase 2 as well. Though royal assent for the phase 2 bill will be around 6 years away still (the consultation for phase 1 started in '11). I am personally convinced it will go ahead. But there won't be anything representing confirmation - per se - until Royal assent in sort of 2022/23 ish.

J4CKO

Original Poster:

41,279 posts

199 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
quotequote all
My mother in law lives near the proposed route of PH2 not far for the Manchester airport, she has a nice property and isnt planning on moving at the moment but has mentioned it as it is quite a place to maintain but I guess she is stuck really, cant imagine it will be easy to sell at the market price and it looks like its ages off her being able to claim anything.

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

136 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
quotequote all
Vocal Minority said:
You are referring to something called the Rural Protection Zone

This is one of the many compensation schemes that HS2 have made available. It is available for residential properties, farms and commercial properties with a rateable value of under £38,400 - in rural areas. This is a discretionary scheme, so goes above and beyond what the law demands, but only sort of. I think their logic is that in London/Birmingham/Leeds etc, the general back ground noise will be such that a slow moving train will be less of an embuggerance compared to what already is there. However a train at full speed in rural Warwickshire will have a more profound affect. – Its just cheaper to offer it to rural as well.

I can't remember what the payment is, but its for people 120 metres from the centreline of the railway. However, this is a sort of advanced payment really, as it will be taken off any other compensation HS2 offer (the payment itself is up to a certain level, you won’t get bunged more than your property is worth).

It's basically a little tickle up front to quell open rebellion

HOWEVER – those in the city are protected by what we call the compensation code – that is the current melange of various laws and act of parliament and judicial precedents in case law. This is far from perfect, and is being improved slowly over time (though still has a way to go).

So everyone affected by the scheme will be compensated, no matter where they live. Granted the compensation will be slow to materialise, and it varies depending on how you are affected, but everyone affected is entitled to compensation under law.

Though I agree that this law has a long way to go before it is truly fit for purpose (and there are groups working on this all the time) – the basic safety net is there for all.



Edited by Vocal Minority on Tuesday 15th November 14:08
Can we have an urban protection zone please, or I shall relaunch the Independence for London campaign.

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

136 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
MarshPhantom said:
Yes, they have them in Spain.
And Germany.
And Holland I believe, although my 2 weeks Amsterdam are a bit of a blur.

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
quotequote all
I wouldn't feel too hard done by MP - it's a relatively nominal gesture,

If someone's owner occupied house in the city is currently blighted (that is to say the land is required for the scheme) they can submit a blight notice now.

And J4CKO - whether she is able to claim depends on precisely where she is.

If her property is safeguarded she may have options

Edited by Vocal Minority on Wednesday 16th November 23:07

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

136 months

Wednesday 16th November 2016
quotequote all
Vocal Minority said:
I wouldn't feel too hard done by MP - it's a relatively nominal gesture,

If someone's owner occupied house in the city is currently blighted (that is to say the land is required for the scheme) they can submit a blight notice now.

And J4CKO - whether she is able to claim depends on precisely where she is.

If her property is safeguarded she may have options

Edited by Vocal Minority on Wednesday 16th November 23:07
Not bothered about London too much, more bothered about it running a few hundred feet beyond the top of parent's garden. This is how I know about the compo scheme. They are just outside the claim zone. My Dad will be long gone as will the house by the time anything actually happens.

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

136 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
HS2 fans, my missus has started using the HS1 from Ebbsfleet to Stratford.

Anyone want to guess how much the season ticket is for this 15 minute/15 mile journey?

One only imagine how much London to Brum would be and she would not be using it if she couldn't claim a fair bit back from work.




Very nearly 4 Grand a year, over £80 a week.


dav123a

1,220 posts

158 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
I've no idea what it's like getting between those two places but what's the alternative and how does it compare in terms of reliability cost journey time etc ?

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
dav123a said:
I've no idea what it's like getting between those two places but what's the alternative and how does it compare in terms of reliability cost journey time etc ?
Indeed - 30 miles a day, 150 miles a week, and most of it stop-start. I'd be surprised if you could do it cheaper by car if you take all of the costs into account.

spaximus

4,230 posts

252 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
Watching the Guy Martin program, they built a 800 mile high speed line 200mph plus in just two years. This will be another 20 at this rate. It will be a toss up which happens first this or heathrow.

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

136 months

Friday 2nd December 2016
quotequote all
dav123a said:
I've no idea what it's like getting between those two places but what's the alternative and how does it compare in terms of reliability cost journey time etc ?
The point is if it's nearly 4 grand a year for a 15 mile/minute trip how much would it be on HS2 between say London and Birmingham on HS2 for example.

dav123a

1,220 posts

158 months

Friday 2nd December 2016
quotequote all
MarshPhantom said:
dav123a said:
I've no idea what it's like getting between those two places but what's the alternative and how does it compare in terms of reliability cost journey time etc ?
The point is if it's nearly 4 grand a year for a 15 mile/minute trip how much would it be on HS2 between say London and Birmingham on HS2 for example.
It's not really the point I know you like the bang the i hate hs2 drum but again how does hs1 prices compare to the alternative ?

I've no idea what the Hs2 prices will be we don't know if it will actually be built yet. They will probably say in about 10 years time what the price will be plenty of time for shouting then.