The EU vs Google

[BlackLabel]

"EU hits Google with record £2.1bn fine for abusing internet search monopoly"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/06/27/e...

[Hayek]

Sir Humphrey said:

vonuber said:

A quick search reveals this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30208001

Seems to be about anti-trust.

If Google weren't providing a good service as judged by its customers then the free market would ensure that they lose market share.

^^ This. In recent years I've become sceptical about the supposed 'problem' with monopolies.

[hornetrider]

BlackLabel said:

"EU hits Google with record £2.1bn fine for abusing internet search monopoly"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/06/27/e...

Blinking eck.

[paulrockliffe]

hornetrider said:

BlackLabel said:

"EU hits Google with record £2.1bn fine for abusing internet search monopoly"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/06/27/e...

Blinking eck.

They should turn it off in the EU for a week and then ask whether they really need to pay this nonsense.

[hyphen]

RegMolehusband said:

KFC said:

Its nothing to do with a shakedown - its the EU rightfully cracking down on an abusive monopoly.

Its pretty obvious that some of the replies above have zero understanding whats going on, I'm not going to spend hours working for free trying to educate you guys so all I'm gonna say is you're wrong and I would suggest you go do some reading on it if you care enough.

Google being slapped down and the emergence of a real viable alternative would be a brilliant thing to happen, even if the general public are too stupid to understand that.

This is the correct answer.

[hyphen]

Mark Benson said:

KFC said:

Foliage said:

No its not.

Are you in the camp of 98elise then.... as long as you get everything free as a consumer you don't care who gets trampled on in the process?

One could argue that if it's free, you should exercise a level of caution in how far you trust it.
But it's not for a supra-national institution to interfere in the activities of a private company which isn't infringing any laws in the member states it operates in.

Next you'll argue that there's little alternative out there. I'd agree, for now. Once Google oversteps the mark in the eyes of it's users then they'll migrate elsewhere, it's the nature of the internet.

What are you on about? Clearly it has infringed the laws in the member states it operates in, seeing as they operate under the same EU competition law!

[hyphen]

Scuffers said:

What can the eu do to google even if they decide to give them a big fine? what if google just say we're not paying?

They wouldn't dare say No. Best they can do is appeal and drag it out for years, but all companies operate under the law and in the extreme case - people will go to jail, googles bank accounts will get frozen, Sanctions eu companies banned from dealing with them (no ad revenue = no point of Google's EU operations, may as well shutdown).

hornetrider said:

BlackLabel said:

"EU hits Google with record £2.1bn fine for abusing internet search monopoly"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/06/27/e...

Blinking eck.

Google made £20 billion in revenues in Europe last year, and paid minimal tax on it, This fine is something they would rather avoid, but nothing major. Microsoft knew at some point it would get a fine, but if they crushed their competitors in the meantime it would be a price well worth paying- this is how the larger companies operate.

Einion Yrth said:

Part of me would just love to see the superannuated f'ckwits of the EU take on google; they'd lose.

KFC said:

I give up, thread unsubscribe time

I should join you, but I won't for now.

Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 27th June 12:55

[fido]

paulrockliffe said:

They should turn it off in the EU for a week and then ask whether they really need to pay this nonsense.

.. but after we've left thanks!

[paulrockliffe]

fido said:

paulrockliffe said:

They should turn it off in the EU for a week and then ask whether they really need to pay this nonsense.

.. but after we've left thanks!

I'm sure it would be left on in the UK because Google know the score.

Imagine all those Android phones suddenly becoming useless because the EU don't understand business or their citizens.

This is exactly the same as when Sky were told they couldn't have all the football games, consumers then had to shell out another £10 a month to get access to the games that they'd had the year before. Then since then what's happened to the cost of Sky TV and all BT Services? They've gone up dramatically as both pay ever more for Premier League rights to head off the other. Who does that help apart from Footballers?

The issue for consumers isn't Google promoting stuff sold by Google ahead of stuff sold by others on their own platform, it's all the other shady stuff that goes on in the background that means when I look for certain brands I can't find them on Amazon and others aren't on eBay. No one in their right mind searches for something on Google and expects to get the best deal at the top of the page where it says "Google Shopping", or "Sponsored Add".

Google can sidestep this anyway, all they need to do is change the platform so that the shopping bar is purely auctioned adverts, like the promotioned results below, then Google Shopping can out-bid the price set by their rivals. Added bonus is that they'd create a well evidenced market that would allow them to place Google Shopping in the local market and shift profits to the Google Service provider in a lower-tax jurisdiction.

[hyphen]

paulrockliffe said:

Imagine all those Android phones suddenly becoming useless because the EU don't understand business or their citizens.
ion.

Say what? Android is open source (and its origins are from outside Google, they bought a company).

paulrockliffe said:

Google can sidestep this anyway, all they need to do is change the platform so that the shopping bar is purely auctioned adverts, like the promotioned results below, then Google Shopping can out-bid the price set by their rivals. Added bonus is that they'd create a well evidenced market that would allow them to place Google Shopping in the local market and shift profits to the Google Service provider in a lower-tax jurisdiction.

Google are not going to run a loss on this. If they want to outbid others, google shopping will need to charge more to it's affiliates.

Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 27th June 13:01

[jjlynn27]

paulrockliffe said:

I'm sure it would be left on in the UK because Google know the score.

Imagine all those Android phones suddenly becoming useless because the EU don't understand business or their citizens.

This is exactly the same as when Sky were told they couldn't have all the football games, consumers then had to shell out another £10 a month to get access to the games that they'd had the year before. Then since then what's happened to the cost of Sky TV and all BT Services? They've gone up dramatically as both pay ever more for Premier League rights to head off the other. Who does that help apart from Footballers?

The issue for consumers isn't Google promoting stuff sold by Google ahead of stuff sold by others on their own platform, it's all the other shady stuff that goes on in the background that means when I look for certain brands I can't find them on Amazon and others aren't on eBay. No one in their right mind searches for something on Google and expects to get the best deal at the top of the page where it says "Google Shopping", or "Sponsored Add".

Google can sidestep this anyway, all they need to do is change the platform so that the shopping bar is purely auctioned adverts, like the promotioned results below, then Google Shopping can out-bid the price set by their rivals. Added bonus is that they'd create a well evidenced market that would allow them to place Google Shopping in the local market and shift profits to the Google Service provider in a lower-tax jurisdiction.

Not sure if serious.

[Police State]

RegMolehusband said:

KFC said:

Its nothing to do with a shakedown - its the EU rightfully cracking down on an abusive monopoly.

Its pretty obvious that some of the replies above have zero understanding whats going on, I'm not going to spend hours working for free trying to educate you guys so all I'm gonna say is you're wrong and I would suggest you go do some reading on it if you care enough.

Google being slapped down and the emergence of a real viable alternative would be a brilliant thing to happen, even if the general public are too stupid to understand that.

This is the correct answer.

and this is a viable alternative... try it, you may like it.

https://duckduckgo.com/

[Derek Smith]

It seems odd that Alphabet didn't try to come to some agreement with the EU. The evidence is clear to see; just use Google Search.

This isn't the EU or lefties trying to get one over on the great benefactor, this is taking on a monopoly, and an acknowledged one.

We leave the EU because we don't want our lives run by unelected faceless European, and yet on this thread people are apparently happy to have our lives run by unelected faceless Americans.

I'm told that Microsoft has complained, not doubt having learned from their experiences what abuse of a monopoly means.

This will run and run I think. The fine is nearly twice what Apple got hit by. Perhaps Alphabet thought that the fine would be lower.

It will be spun by lobbyists in the USA as the EU communists being anti business, but in reality it is pro business. Also it will be pro American businesses as well.

Good on the EU for tackling what many (ie me) might have seen as an impossible task. They don't come much bigger than Google.

[Derek Smith]

98elise said:

KFC said:

Its nothing to do with a shakedown - its the EU rightfully cracking down on an abusive monopoly.

Its pretty obvious that some of the replies above have zero understanding whats going on, I'm not going to spend hours working for free trying to educate you guys so all I'm gonna say is you're wrong and I would suggest you go do some reading on it if you care enough.

Google being slapped down and the emergence of a real viable alternative would be a brilliant thing to happen, even if the general public are too stupid to understand that.

If thats the case they should go after ebay and paypal first. That is an abusive monopoly.

As far as I can remember google have been providing me will a free and decent service for over a decade. I personally don't want anything to change, but I'm possibly too stupid to realise that it should change?

I don't see why the company will change its service to you. The search engine will remain. It's just that it should be more effective once Google Search doesn't promote its own products over those of its rivals.

I would image that, if eBay and Paypal are in breech of the legislation, they will be targeted eventually, but one massive global giant at a time. Making a case against Alphabet can't have been easy, nor cheap.

[Jinx]

Derek Smith said:

I don't see why the company will change its service to you. The search engine will remain. It's just that it should be more effective once Google Search doesn't promote its own products over those of its rivals.

I would image that, if eBay and Paypal are in breech of the legislation, they will be targeted eventually, but one massive global giant at a time. Making a case against Alphabet can't have been easy, nor cheap.

Will it?
I think perhaps some slight changes to googles' algorithms so that all searches sent from IPs geo-located in the EU only return pics of Maggie Thatcher for 48 hours and the EU will cave in

[paulrockliffe]

hyphen said:

paulrockliffe said:

Imagine all those Android phones suddenly becoming useless because the EU don't understand business or their citizens.
ion.

Say what? Android is open source (and its origins are from outside Google, they bought a company).

paulrockliffe said:

Google can sidestep this anyway, all they need to do is change the platform so that the shopping bar is purely auctioned adverts, like the promotioned results below, then Google Shopping can out-bid the price set by their rivals. Added bonus is that they'd create a well evidenced market that would allow them to place Google Shopping in the local market and shift profits to the Google Service provider in a lower-tax jurisdiction.

Google are not going to run a loss on this. If they want to outbid others, google shopping will need to charge more to it's affiliates.

Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 27th June 13:01

You've not understood either of those points you've quoted. Android is Open Source, but who do you think controls "Google Play Services" and defacto, all of the apps that rely on that for data, to work? If Play Services goes down the phone still works and you might be able to find some other apps to replace some of the ones that use Play Services, but you'll need to start with an alternative method of getting those apps on. Because the Play Store just happens to be run by Google too. And chances are you don't have a list of app options to hand and will need a search engine to find those.....

Google wouldn't run at a loss, because they'd be selling the advertising space to themselves, they'd just be moving money around. Actually, they probably already do this, they just need to open the Google Shopping bar bit to their competitors and then price them out again to comply with this daft complaint.

[Dick Dastardly]

Who are the rivals that want in though? Any retailer can promote products within Google Shopping and that includes eBay sellers a lot of the time and even other marketplaces (e.g. Not on the High Street). The only rivals therefore who can't join in are other search engines, but what would Bing do within shopping, as it doesn't sell product.

I've been following this loosely since the original complaint (back when Google Shopping used to be a free service) and all along I've felt that the EU people behind this don't really understand the search engine marketing landscape or who exactly is being harmed.

[RegMolehusband]

Google Shopping is just another way for Google to extract money from businesses, large and small. It is pay-per-click, like Adwords, in another form.

Searchers have to get past Google Shopping and Adwords before getting to the worthwhile organic results that lead you to the carefully constructed e-commerce websites on which businesses have spent £££££ to provide a good visitor experience and a choice of products meeting the searchers' needs.

To appear in Google Shopping, businesses have to put together a product data feed replicating the products that already appear on their website. They then have to understand what needs to be done to ensure they appear in the shopping results for specific (and often random) search terms. Then they have to pay Google typically between 30p and £2 each time somebody clicks on the very basic shopping Ad - whether they buy the product or not.

Most businesses give Google far more money than they need to (probably mine included) because the whole thing is a black art and quite technical.

For me, it's a pain in the arse and if Google Shopping was to disappear tomorrow, it wouldn't be soon enough.

[BMWBen]

Loving the knee-jerk "EU THEREFORE BAD " reactions here...

If you take time to consider the actual issues and what they're being fined for, it's quite hard to argue that its not a good thing and that it's not pro-competition and pro-business.

[greygoose]

BMWBen said:

Loving the knee-jerk "EU THEREFORE BAD " reactions here...

If you take time to consider the actual issues and what they're being fined for, it's quite hard to argue that its not a good thing and that it's not pro-competition and pro-business.

Indeed, similarly people struggling to see the problem with monopolies.....