Are the left wing less tolerant of the views of others?

Are the left wing less tolerant of the views of others?

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BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
“ A video attacking Chancellor Rishi Sunak's "lavish celebrity lifestyle" has sparked a row on social media.
The video, by a new pro-Labour campaign group, targets Mr Sunak's personal wealth and accuses him of planning tax cuts for "his old mates in the City".
Tory former Chancellor Sajid Javid responded to it by saying: "The Left really, really do detest ethnic-minority Tory Cabinet ministers."”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54706214

Countdown

39,687 posts

195 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
markcoznottz said:
El stovey said:
R Mutt said:
Especially valid in the perpetual state of hatred against the rich, as the narrative is that they have taken from the poor.

Of course the rich may be intolerant to the feckless but if one simply hasn't earnt money, than that is the more direct consequence of poverty, as opposed to the oppression and theft the left make it out to be.
We see the same when dissatisfaction leads to blaming other groups like foreigners or the EU etc

Blaming the rich or the EU, or the right/left (or any other group) for your unhappiness is simply reactive thinking and a victim mindset and not taking responsibility for your own situation.
If your job is sold abroad or your trade undercut by immigrant labour, at what point does stating that fact cross the line to become ‘casual racism’ (got to love that word). There is rarely any specificity to the insinuation.
Who is selling your job abroad? Maybe they're the ones that you should direct your ire towards.

If only there was some kind of organisation that Employees could join which would advocate for their rights and try to stop jobs being moved abroad.. I believe those dastardly French are quite good at this... scratchchin


bitchstewie

50,767 posts

209 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
“ A video attacking Chancellor Rishi Sunak's "lavish celebrity lifestyle" has sparked a row on social media.
The video, by a new pro-Labour campaign group, targets Mr Sunak's personal wealth and accuses him of planning tax cuts for "his old mates in the City".
Tory former Chancellor Sajid Javid responded to it by saying: "The Left really, really do detest ethnic-minority Tory Cabinet ministers."”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54706214
I fleetingly read something about that.

I'll caveat that I haven't seen the campaign but do people really think it's because he's an ethnic-minority or is it more likely because he's seen as pro-Brexit and an ally of Johnson?

Electro1980

8,248 posts

138 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
“ A video attacking Chancellor Rishi Sunak's "lavish celebrity lifestyle" has sparked a row on social media.
The video, by a new pro-Labour campaign group, targets Mr Sunak's personal wealth and accuses him of planning tax cuts for "his old mates in the City".
Tory former Chancellor Sajid Javid responded to it by saying: "The Left really, really do detest ethnic-minority Tory Cabinet ministers."”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54706214
It’s telling where you cut off your quote where you did:

“Conservative peer Baroness Warsi took issue with Mr Javid's criticism.
"That's not universally true Sajid," she tweeted.
"Don't think the left 'detested' me when I was a Tory Cabinet minister although many on the right did/ still do for holding a mirror up to racism within our ranks."”

Jarvid is very quick to play the race card.

Edited by Electro1980 on Wednesday 28th October 13:12

Rivenink

3,665 posts

105 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
It's remarkably ironic to see people who hate political correctness suddenly using it to defend Rishi.

And expected.

markcoznottz

7,155 posts

223 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
“ A video attacking Chancellor Rishi Sunak's "lavish celebrity lifestyle" has sparked a row on social media.
The video, by a new pro-Labour campaign group, targets Mr Sunak's personal wealth and accuses him of planning tax cuts for "his old mates in the City".
Tory former Chancellor Sajid Javid responded to it by saying: "The Left really, really do detest ethnic-minority Tory Cabinet ministers."”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54706214
Is that not plainly racist though. You can understand the right not liking a champagne socialist, because it’s hypocritical on an economic level, especially if you are creative in your tax avoidance (hello Milliband). But to say I don’t like ethnic groups making money is illogical. If you live in a trendy part of London or work for the bbc you can be a rich lefty you get a free pass

GMT13

1,043 posts

186 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Rivenink said:
It's remarkably ironic to see people who hate political correctness suddenly using it to defend Rishi.

And expected.
The hypocrisy works both ways. If you constantly use political correctness and 'ist' labels as a defence, don't be surprised if it's used against you when you attack a BAME opponent.

Javid just playing them at their own game.

Randy Winkman

16,013 posts

188 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Here's a nice article about how tolerant the right wing are:

https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremi...

I summary: In the US right wing extremists have killed 329 people in the last 25 years whilst left wing extremists have killed none.

andymadmak

14,482 posts

269 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
Here's a nice article about how tolerant the right wing are:

https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremi...

I summary: In the US right wing extremists have killed 329 people in the last 25 years whilst left wing extremists have killed none.
You need to read that article again, because that is not what it says. It says ANTIFA have not killed anyone, but that other left wing groups have.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
andymadmak said:
Randy Winkman said:
Here's a nice article about how tolerant the right wing are:

https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremi...

I summary: In the US right wing extremists have killed 329 people in the last 25 years whilst left wing extremists have killed none.
You need to read that article again, because that is not what it says. It says ANTIFA have not killed anyone, but that other left wing groups have.
Correct but it’s written in response to Trumps comments about far left wing groups and from the article the far right wing groups have killed far more than the lefties whichever way you look at it.



otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
Here's a nice article about how tolerant the right wing are:

https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremi...

I summary: In the US right wing extremists have killed 329 people in the last 25 years whilst left wing extremists have killed none.
Your summary of the article is wrong, it says that anti-fascists as a subset of the left have killed none.

If you pick your time and place, you can choose whichever side you like. South and Central America gives you a smörgåsbord of nasty murderous bds across the political spectrum. Spain gives you ETA (left wing anti-fascist murderous bds), or if you go further back, Franco (right wing fascist murderous bds). Ireland had its share of left wing murderous bds (the IRA wanted a socialist republic), Germany had the Red Army Faction, etc.

Political violence is a feature of extremism, not of specific ideology. It's fair to say that America recently has had more problems with violent right wing extremism than left, but it's just a data point.

andy_s

19,397 posts

258 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
The 'intolerence' is in the feed, but the party follows the feed because it thinks the feed is real [see LAB '19, DEM '20...]. The feed exists in a state of constant opposition without solution; an individual and their position in the feed is aligned to how intense their criticism is, with or without foundation.

If Biden wins he will have a problem if he cannot fulfill the wishes of the crazy, which he can't. They will turn on him as 'how sharper than a serpents tooth is the ungrateful child'.

If Trump wins you can expect to see the full blown left wing intolerance made manifest across the cities of the United States.

Neither are leaders.

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
I'll caveat that I haven't seen the campaign but do people really think it's because he's an ethnic-minority or is it more likely because he's seen as pro-Brexit and an ally of Johnson?
It is for some. I had a feeling I'd be able to find people calling him a coconut, and a brief search on twitter confirms that.

Three easy steps from woke to hate speech:

Group before Individuality
BAME group is supposed to vote Labour
People who don't conform are race traitors

Job jobbed.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
otolith said:
Your summary of the article is wrong, it says that anti-fascists as a subset of the left have killed none.

If you pick your time and place, you can choose whichever side you like. South and Central America gives you a smörgåsbord of nasty murderous bds across the political spectrum. Spain gives you ETA (left wing anti-fascist murderous bds), or if you go further back, Franco (right wing fascist murderous bds). Ireland had its share of left wing murderous bds (the IRA wanted a socialist republic), Germany had the Red Army Faction, etc.

Political violence is a feature of extremism, not of specific ideology. It's fair to say that America recently has had more problems with violent right wing extremism than left, but it's just a data point.
Exactly. There are polarised intolerant people on all sides of the political spectrum getting worse as you move away from the middle to the extremists on the far left and right.

The thread is basically a load of bks started by someone intolerantly trying to glibly label those that disagree with their politics as intolerant.



bitchstewie

50,767 posts

209 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
amusingduck said:
bhstewie said:
I'll caveat that I haven't seen the campaign but do people really think it's because he's an ethnic-minority or is it more likely because he's seen as pro-Brexit and an ally of Johnson?
It is for some. I had a feeling I'd be able to find people calling him a coconut, and a brief search on twitter confirms that.

Three easy steps from woke to hate speech:

Group before Individuality
BAME group is supposed to vote Labour
People who don't conform are race traitors

Job jobbed.
That's fked up.

My guess is pick a BAME politician and you'll find something similar whoever they are.

Warsi was quoted in the BBC article and as she said the abuse she got wasn't mostly from the left.

That doesn't make it a left/right thing it just highlights that there are always fked up people everywhere.

Now if someone has said that about Sunak it's wrong but I'm not sure that makes the campaign itself an ethnicity issue.

glazbagun

14,257 posts

196 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Would the banning if almost all abortion by the Polish Right not be an example of the Right Wing being super intolerant?

Making hate speech a crime or changing your tax band seem much less invasive by comparison.

Or the conservative muslim who chopped a teachers head off because he didn't like the views or others. Doesn't sound particularly tolerant.

BritishBlitz87

655 posts

47 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
glazbagun said:
Would the banning if almost all abortion by the Polish Right not be an example of the Right Wing being super intolerant?

Making hate speech a crime or changing your tax band seem much less invasive by comparison.

Or the conservative muslim who chopped a teachers head off because he didn't like the views or others. Doesn't sound particularly tolerant.
Banning abortion is hardly intolerant, any more than banning cocaine or gambling or duels is. It's simply a reflection of the actions a society as a whole deems to be morally acceptable. You could make the argument that they might be choosing the greater of two evils, but at the end of the day people are free to disagree with the decision. Personally I see abortion as one of the greatest moral evils of our society, but unless they are specifically of debating it with me no one knows nor cares what my views are on the subject, and that is how it should be. If they were beating up pro-choice activists in the street, and ostracising them socially, that would be intolerant.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
BritishBlitz87 said:
Banning abortion is hardly intolerant, any more than banning cocaine or gambling or duels is. It's simply a reflection of the actions a society as a whole deems to be morally acceptable. You could make the argument that they might be choosing the greater of two evils, but at the end of the day people are free to disagree with the decision. Personally I see abortion as one of the greatest moral evils of our society, but unless they are specifically of debating it with me no one knows nor cares what my views are on the subject, and that is how it should be. If they were beating up pro-choice activists in the street, and ostracising them socially, that would be intolerant.
I guess you are in favour of a much more generous benefits system then?

Electro1980

8,248 posts

138 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
amusingduck said:
bhstewie said:
I'll caveat that I haven't seen the campaign but do people really think it's because he's an ethnic-minority or is it more likely because he's seen as pro-Brexit and an ally of Johnson?
It is for some. I had a feeling I'd be able to find people calling him a coconut, and a brief search on twitter confirms that.

Three easy steps from woke to hate speech:

Group before Individuality
BAME group is supposed to vote Labour
People who don't conform are race traitors

Job jobbed.
That's fked up.

My guess is pick a BAME politician and you'll find something similar whoever they are.

Warsi was quoted in the BBC article and as she said the abuse she got wasn't mostly from the left.

That doesn't make it a left/right thing it just highlights that there are always fked up people everywhere.

Now if someone has said that about Sunak it's wrong but I'm not sure that makes the campaign itself an ethnicity issue.
Pick any public person and you will find someone who insults them on Twitter. Digging for an insult and finding one proves only that Twitter is easy to sign up for.

andymadmak

14,482 posts

269 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
glazbagun said:
Or the conservative muslim who chopped a teachers head off because he didn't like the views or others. Doesn't sound particularly tolerant.
Why are you assuming that the muslim fellow is right wing? The use of the term 'conservative' in this context to infer right wing allegiances is lazy.
Religious conservatism is not the same as political conservatism.
You wouldn't be trying to use the tragic murder of a french teacher for political points scoring would you? That would be nasty