Are the left wing less tolerant of the views of others?
Discussion
What's very sad is that the black and white nature of internet discussion seems to be dribbling out into wider debate and every discussion is becoming either/or instead of recognition of the complexities of whatever the topic is.
We seem to be on this path towards the American style politics where you pick a side and must adopt whatever angle that side has on a particular topic.
I'd rather debate was based on evidence, expertise and experience instead of adopting whatever your team supports. Otherwise you inevitably end up with idiotic contrivances. Oh, I'm right wing so I'm dead against renewable energy. It makes no sense at all.
It's so stupid to label yourself as left or right wing because they are meangingless and superficial definitions. It's just a convenient branding that helps sell papers and generate viewing figures and I think it's contrary to the British way of life. I hope we are a little more considered than that.
Once you get get to the detail of an argument you often find that people generally agree about most things.
Consider these three steps:
1. Close the borders to this swarm of migrants!
2. What about this woman who had her family butchered in front of her by ISIS?
3. That's horrific. Fair enough, she can come in.
The right/left wing distinction ends at step 1.
However, while internet debate may often and easily be misled, the ease of which you can find out the facts behind a story online is magnificent. You should never really form an opinion until you've done a bit of research yourself, or you trust the source. Obviously any source with a clearly defined agenda is not a good source, whether it's the Mirror or the Mail.
We seem to be on this path towards the American style politics where you pick a side and must adopt whatever angle that side has on a particular topic.
I'd rather debate was based on evidence, expertise and experience instead of adopting whatever your team supports. Otherwise you inevitably end up with idiotic contrivances. Oh, I'm right wing so I'm dead against renewable energy. It makes no sense at all.
It's so stupid to label yourself as left or right wing because they are meangingless and superficial definitions. It's just a convenient branding that helps sell papers and generate viewing figures and I think it's contrary to the British way of life. I hope we are a little more considered than that.
Once you get get to the detail of an argument you often find that people generally agree about most things.
Consider these three steps:
1. Close the borders to this swarm of migrants!
2. What about this woman who had her family butchered in front of her by ISIS?
3. That's horrific. Fair enough, she can come in.
The right/left wing distinction ends at step 1.
However, while internet debate may often and easily be misled, the ease of which you can find out the facts behind a story online is magnificent. You should never really form an opinion until you've done a bit of research yourself, or you trust the source. Obviously any source with a clearly defined agenda is not a good source, whether it's the Mirror or the Mail.
Can't really say in general terms - but I do know a leftie on FB who was apoplectic when the tories won the last general election and was extremely vocal on his thoughts regarding the people who voted for them - absolutely refusing to acknowledge that others may have a different view to himself.
I can't recall anyone I knew being so vocally outspoken when Labour last got in.
I can't recall anyone I knew being so vocally outspoken when Labour last got in.
Its a bit of a daft topic this really.
You have the far left who are intolerant and very stupid and you have the far right who are intolerant and very stupid and then 85% of us fall neatly in between the two and get on with things.
It always seems worst than it is because the people at either end of the spectrum are the mouthy thick opinionated ones.
You have the far left who are intolerant and very stupid and you have the far right who are intolerant and very stupid and then 85% of us fall neatly in between the two and get on with things.
It always seems worst than it is because the people at either end of the spectrum are the mouthy thick opinionated ones.
durbster said:
Consider these three steps:
1. Close the borders to this swarm of migrants!
2. What about this woman who had her family butchered in front of her by ISIS?
3. That's horrific. Fair enough, she can come in.
The right/left wing distinction ends at step 1.
That step 1 claim doesn't ring true at all. This is about refugees fleeing a war zone not immigrants from relatively stable regions looking for handouts and healthcare.1. Close the borders to this swarm of migrants!
2. What about this woman who had her family butchered in front of her by ISIS?
3. That's horrific. Fair enough, she can come in.
The right/left wing distinction ends at step 1.
Conservative MP Jo Churchill wants Britain to take in more refugees and there are others like her.
Media polarisation, social media and journalistic, is more evident.
Conservative Home article said:
The Twitter flashmob wants more refugees. The BBC wants more refugees, and has not so much abandoned impartiality on the matter as shown no sign of understanding it. Most of the broadsheet commentariat wants more refugees.
I certainly don't often seen anyone vocally supporting the Conservative party on Twitter or Facebook - but I do see a politically silent majority and we know what happened in the general election.
The left, at least in the UK, can't seem to abide the opinion of anyone who disagrees, are utterly certain they have it all figured out and staggeringly most often it's the party of Corbyn, Brown, Prescott, et al who are going to deliver their utopia. The frothing, the blaming of Thatcher by people who weren't born when she left office, the hanging on to the coal industry even now, I find pretty incomprehensible.
I feel for anyone with half a brain and a leftward inclination. It must be agony.
The left, at least in the UK, can't seem to abide the opinion of anyone who disagrees, are utterly certain they have it all figured out and staggeringly most often it's the party of Corbyn, Brown, Prescott, et al who are going to deliver their utopia. The frothing, the blaming of Thatcher by people who weren't born when she left office, the hanging on to the coal industry even now, I find pretty incomprehensible.
I feel for anyone with half a brain and a leftward inclination. It must be agony.
Moonhawk said:
Can't really say in general terms - but I do know a leftie on FB who was apoplectic when the tories won the last general election and was extremely vocal on his thoughts regarding the people who voted for them - absolutely refusing to acknowledge that others may have a different view to himself.
They're all like that, in my experience. I remember FB just being chock-full of "Stephen Hawking votes Labour - Tories are therefore thick" and similar. The fury come the announcement was unreal.Oh and the bleating about "the majority of the public didn't vote Tory" and "they only got 23% (or whatever it was)" blah blah. They'd have been happy enough with FPTP if it was Labour who'd won.
(Incidentally - I also see a lot of bleating about how the SNP cost them the election - er, how? Scotland only had one Tory MP to lose, it was a complete irrelevance, the Tory majority would have been the same.)
Otispunkmeyer said:
I have a number of left leaning friends on FB (many teachers and fellow PhD'ers, so not stupid people). Some are vegan as well. I see posts all the time from broccolli having more protein that steak, vegan body builders being better than normal body builders, lots angry rants against something the tories have done, stuff about pensions and not getting their annual payrise (for simply turning up to work).
To be honest I never comment on them, 5 minutes on google easily sorts out the cobblers from the kinda-sorta-true-if-you-look-at-it-upside-down stuff. Why they do it when stuff is easily fact checkable I have no idea, but I don't comment because it will only start a fight. They have blinkers for certain things, especially things they are passionate about. As has been mentioned they are idealists in the round but unfortunately the world just isn't ideal and it never will be.
One of the key characteristics I have found of those who consider themselves educated leftists is the ability to ignore facts that don't support their worldview.To be honest I never comment on them, 5 minutes on google easily sorts out the cobblers from the kinda-sorta-true-if-you-look-at-it-upside-down stuff. Why they do it when stuff is easily fact checkable I have no idea, but I don't comment because it will only start a fight. They have blinkers for certain things, especially things they are passionate about. As has been mentioned they are idealists in the round but unfortunately the world just isn't ideal and it never will be.
They go through life in a reality they have constructed for themselves and if someone/a newspaper dares publish something that would contradict that worldview they don't just disbelief it they are angry that they have posted it.
Dog Star said:
Oh and the bleating about "the majority of the public didn't vote Tory" and "they only got 23% (or whatever it was)" blah blah. They'd have been happy enough with FPTP if it was Labour who'd won.
I found they shut up about that pretty quick when it was pointed out to them that Labour won the 2005 election with an even lower percentage.turbobloke said:
Because the response on here is more likely to be around evidenced refutation rather than pure intolerance. As to temerity, that's hardly applicable.
The above examples from IH are of intolerance shown by deletion, cutting off, ostracising. PHers do, on the whole, tend to engage in discussion at least until the point that an interlocutor of any particular flavour starts trolling.
On, sure, some people engage in debate, but plenty wade straight in with name calling.The above examples from IH are of intolerance shown by deletion, cutting off, ostracising. PHers do, on the whole, tend to engage in discussion at least until the point that an interlocutor of any particular flavour starts trolling.
blindswelledrat said:
Its a bit of a daft topic this really.
You have the far left who are intolerant and very stupid and you have the far right who are intolerant and very stupid and then 85% of us fall neatly in between the two and get on with things.
It always seems worst than it is because the people at either end of the spectrum are the mouthy thick opinionated ones.
You have the far left who are intolerant and very stupid and you have the far right who are intolerant and very stupid and then 85% of us fall neatly in between the two and get on with things.
It always seems worst than it is because the people at either end of the spectrum are the mouthy thick opinionated ones.
turbobloke said:
. The BBC wants more refugees, and has not so much abandoned impartiality on the matter as shown no sign of understanding it.
I think we are into that standard lefty position of something being self-evidently correct so it doesn't need any further thought or rational argument.
Had some people on facebook the other day advocating people to book free tickets to a Anti-EU talk Nigel Farage was doing, then not turning up, hoping it would end up with him talking to an empty room. The left seem to think freedom of speech and expression is good, as long as it's their brand and type of freedom, everyone else with differing opinions can go to hell as far as their concerned.
Barring a few counter arguments, the most vitriolic and hatefilled statements made after the general election were from people on the left, which is just stupid, reason why I don't do politics on facebook, and haven't entered into the whole refugee/migrant posts that have cropped up either, as opposing for any reason = racist.
Barring a few counter arguments, the most vitriolic and hatefilled statements made after the general election were from people on the left, which is just stupid, reason why I don't do politics on facebook, and haven't entered into the whole refugee/migrant posts that have cropped up either, as opposing for any reason = racist.
Dog Star said:
Moonhawk said:
Can't really say in general terms - but I do know a leftie on FB who was apoplectic when the tories won the last general election and was extremely vocal on his thoughts regarding the people who voted for them - absolutely refusing to acknowledge that others may have a different view to himself.
They're all like that, in my experience. I remember FB just being chock-full of "Stephen Hawking votes Labour - Tories are therefore thick" and similar. The fury come the announcement was unreal.Dog Star said:
Oh and the bleating about "the majority of the public didn't vote Tory" and "they only got 23% (or whatever it was)" blah blah. They'd have been happy enough with FPTP if it was Labour who'd won.
It was also gradely fine to Labour supporters when Labour won 1997-on in a similar circumstance. Perhaps it's down to intolerance.poster said:
The left, at least in the UK, can't seem to abide the opinion of anyone who disagrees, are utterly certain they have it all figured out ...
I feel for anyone with half a brain and a leftward inclination. It must be agony.
And there we have it, the unconscious hypocrisy displayed in just one post that sums up this thread.I feel for anyone with half a brain and a leftward inclination. It must be agony.
Intolerant people with left wing views are no less tolerant than intolerant people with right wing views. I would have thought that was pretty bloody obvious, frankly.
If you think your claim to either the answers or the moral high-ground is based on being right or left wing, you're a fool.
durbster said:
poster said:
The left, at least in the UK, can't seem to abide the opinion of anyone who disagrees, are utterly certain they have it all figured out ...
I feel for anyone with half a brain and a leftward inclination. It must be agony.
And there we have it, the unconscious hypocrisy displayed in just one post that sums up this thread.I feel for anyone with half a brain and a leftward inclination. It must be agony.
Intolerant people with left wing views are no less tolerant than intolerant people with right wing views. I would have thought that was pretty bloody obvious, frankly.
If you think your claim to either the answers or the moral high-ground is based on being right or left wing, you're a fool.
durbster said:
poster said:
The left, at least in the UK, can't seem to abide the opinion of anyone who disagrees, are utterly certain they have it all figured out ...
I feel for anyone with half a brain and a leftward inclination. It must be agony.
And there we have it, the unconscious hypocrisy displayed in just one post that sums up this thread.I feel for anyone with half a brain and a leftward inclination. It must be agony.
And with respect, are you not being rather intolerant of another PHer's viewpoint? You did mention hypocrisy.
durbster said:
If you think your claim to either the answers or the moral high-ground is based on being right or left wing, you're a fool.
Was there such a claim - to the answers for example?Lord Donoughue would tell you given the chance that claiming the moral high ground is more typical of the Left than the Right, but he's only been among the UK left for his working lifetime and had meetings and exchanges with his political opponents for the same period.
turbobloke said:
durbster said:
Consider these three steps:
1. Close the borders to this swarm of migrants!
2. What about this woman who had her family butchered in front of her by ISIS?
3. That's horrific. Fair enough, she can come in.
The right/left wing distinction ends at step 1.
That step 1 claim doesn't ring true at all.1. Close the borders to this swarm of migrants!
2. What about this woman who had her family butchered in front of her by ISIS?
3. That's horrific. Fair enough, she can come in.
The right/left wing distinction ends at step 1.
durbster said:
turbobloke said:
durbster said:
Consider these three steps:
1. Close the borders to this swarm of migrants!
2. What about this woman who had her family butchered in front of her by ISIS?
3. That's horrific. Fair enough, she can come in.
The right/left wing distinction ends at step 1.
That step 1 claim doesn't ring true at all.1. Close the borders to this swarm of migrants!
2. What about this woman who had her family butchered in front of her by ISIS?
3. That's horrific. Fair enough, she can come in.
The right/left wing distinction ends at step 1.
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