Homeopathy.... At last
Discussion
julian64 said:
On the news today. NICE is finally going to remove it from NHS prescription?
They couldn't do anything else really. Its just a bit of a shame they took so long
Couldn't agree more.They couldn't do anything else really. Its just a bit of a shame they took so long
The NHS should be providing things that (a) the nation can afford, (b) people actually need and (c) that might work.
ReallyReallyGood said:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, if such a placebo did genuinely make some percentage of patients feel better - thus preventing them from undertaking the time and resource for further investigations at greater expense to the NHS - isn't it money well spent?
A very interesting point. Homeopathy is a pile of bullcrap, but that doesn't mean it isn't effective as a placebo and financially efficient.ReallyReallyGood said:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, if such a placebo did genuinely make some percentage of patients feel better - thus preventing them from undertaking the time and resource for further investigations at greater expense to the NHS - isn't it money well spent?
Homeopathic 'medicines' are more expensive than sugar pills, though. Just hand them out for placebo...ReallyReallyGood said:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, if such a placebo did genuinely make some percentage of patients feel better - thus preventing them from undertaking the time and resource for further investigations at greater expense to the NHS - isn't it money well spent?
But this a trap that a large quantity of the research falls into. Placebo effect is real. If you ever measure two therapies side by side, and on one side the doctor or other health care professional spends a bit longer with you, either doing the procedure, or explaining it to you, that seems to increase the effectiveness of the intervention. Two people given antibiotics for a chest infection. One consultation lasts twenty minutes, and one lasts three minutes. In the twenty minute consultation the antibiotics will be reported to be more effective.Even the effect of examining someone when the examination actually has no effect on whether the patient was going to receive the treatment or not because it was all decided on history, has a beneficial effect.
Placebo is real.
loafer123 said:
ReallyReallyGood said:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, if such a placebo did genuinely make some percentage of patients feel better - thus preventing them from undertaking the time and resource for further investigations at greater expense to the NHS - isn't it money well spent?
A very interesting point. Homeopathy is a pile of bullcrap, but that doesn't mean it isn't effective as a placebo and financially efficient.1) The ultimate outcomes for people sent home from the doctor with nothing, vs those who were prescribed placebos, including homeopathic remedies, and
2) The incidence of return appointments for the same two groups
If either of those showed a significant cost saving for prescribing homeopathic remedies (or some other placebo) vs doing nothing then I can see great sense in doing so. Of course the Daily Mail would have a fit, but that's not necessarily a bad thing...
A rather excellent episode of Doc Martin from a few years back illustrates this nicely.
loafer123 said:
ReallyReallyGood said:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, if such a placebo did genuinely make some percentage of patients feel better - thus preventing them from undertaking the time and resource for further investigations at greater expense to the NHS - isn't it money well spent?
A very interesting point. Homeopathy is a pile of bullcrap, but that doesn't mean it isn't effective as a placebo and financially efficient.Fella on R4 this morning was on full spin mode quoting all sorts of proof. Science writer guy foil was not impressed.
GroundEffect said:
ReallyReallyGood said:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, if such a placebo did genuinely make some percentage of patients feel better - thus preventing them from undertaking the time and resource for further investigations at greater expense to the NHS - isn't it money well spent?
Homeopathic 'medicines' are more expensive than sugar pills, though. Just hand them out for placebo...You don't need to spend 4m on special water prepared by a Shamen.
98elise said:
If Homeopathy has a placebo effect (which I'm prepared to believe) then every doctors surgery I've even been into has a never ending supply homeopathic medicine coming out of a tap.
You don't need to spend 4m on special water prepared by a Shamen.
Maybe we should have one homeopathic guy in each doctor's surgery - just get some random actor who can pretend to be all caring, have 30 minute appointment times so patients feel they're being well looked after, hand out water as a 'cure' and if they don't get better in a week go to see a real doctor.You don't need to spend 4m on special water prepared by a Shamen.
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