Homeopathy.... At last
Discussion
julian64 said:
Erumm surgery isn't the first line cure for endometriosis. Usually a laparoscopy for ablation is a last resort after quite a lot of medical treatment.
And laparoscopy is minimally invasive surgery. Your wife would have two surgical wounds on her abdo. each about a centimeter long. Hardly butchery.
Even hysterectomy would have no scar as unless your wife was very overweight it would be a vaginal hysterectomy.
Way before this your wife would have been offered tablet hormone treatment over a year or possibly an interuterine coil.
?
She was offered hormones, which she didn't want because of the many side effects, and because she was in hospital every month, high as a kite on pethadine for 3 or more days the Hysterectomy was offered. Hysterectomy would have been life-changing, as we wanted children, and our beautiful daughter is now 17 years old! I have NO DOUBT the homeopathy (or the 'psychic power') of the homeopath did the trick. As I said before, if this is all in the mind then homeopaths who are able to do this are IMHO very useful - After all as long as the patient gets better, that's what's important. And laparoscopy is minimally invasive surgery. Your wife would have two surgical wounds on her abdo. each about a centimeter long. Hardly butchery.
Even hysterectomy would have no scar as unless your wife was very overweight it would be a vaginal hysterectomy.
Way before this your wife would have been offered tablet hormone treatment over a year or possibly an interuterine coil.
?
Fastpedeller said:
As I said before, if this is all in the mind then homeopaths who are able to do this are IMHO very useful - After all as long as the patient gets better, that's what's important.
What if there are lots of patients, many of whom are getting iller or even dying as because they are shunning medicine for this quackery, alongside the odd patient that benefits from the placebo effect? 
Fastpedeller said:
julian64 said:
Erumm surgery isn't the first line cure for endometriosis. Usually a laparoscopy for ablation is a last resort after quite a lot of medical treatment.
And laparoscopy is minimally invasive surgery. Your wife would have two surgical wounds on her abdo. each about a centimeter long. Hardly butchery.
Even hysterectomy would have no scar as unless your wife was very overweight it would be a vaginal hysterectomy.
Way before this your wife would have been offered tablet hormone treatment over a year or possibly an interuterine coil.
?
She was offered hormones, which she didn't want because of the many side effects, and because she was in hospital every month, high as a kite on pethadine for 3 or more days the Hysterectomy was offered. Hysterectomy would have been life-changing, as we wanted children, and our beautiful daughter is now 17 years old! I have NO DOUBT the homeopathy (or the 'psychic power') of the homeopath did the trick. As I said before, if this is all in the mind then homeopaths who are able to do this are IMHO very useful - After all as long as the patient gets better, that's what's important. And laparoscopy is minimally invasive surgery. Your wife would have two surgical wounds on her abdo. each about a centimeter long. Hardly butchery.
Even hysterectomy would have no scar as unless your wife was very overweight it would be a vaginal hysterectomy.
Way before this your wife would have been offered tablet hormone treatment over a year or possibly an interuterine coil.
?
The same is true of a homeopath. Just because they keep your wife occupied while nature takes its course doesn't mean they are worth the money.
Should the NHS invest in smarties and charge the taxpayer as we know the placebo effect works?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
What if there are lots of patients, many of whom are getting iller or even dying as because they are shunning medicine for this quackery, alongside the odd patient that benefits from the placebo effect?
Damn straight... Oh, hang onhttp://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and...
Fastpedeller said:
She was offered hormones, which she didn't want because of the many side effects, and because she was in hospital every month, high as a kite on pethadine for 3 or more days the Hysterectomy was offered. Hysterectomy would have been life-changing, as we wanted children, and our beautiful daughter is now 17 years old! I have NO DOUBT the homeopathy (or the 'psychic power') of the homeopath did the trick. As I said before, if this is all in the mind then homeopaths who are able to do this are IMHO very useful - After all as long as the patient gets better, that's what's important.
My resident medical expert says one of the best cures for endomitriosis is pregnancy. Did the symptoms reduce at the time of pregnancy?eldar said:
My resident medical expert says one of the best cures for endomitriosis is pregnancy. Did the symptoms reduce at the time of pregnancy?
No - 3 years of improvement before pregnancy. She was also told (at the time she was told hysterectomy was the only answer) that she would never be able to get pregnant. I keep an open mind on these things, but also don't wish to criticise the allopathic practitioners. Some methods (at a particular time) may work for one patient but not for others. I have witnessed what I consider to be a transformation in my Wife's health, and (unless it's a remarkable coincidence she suddenly got better after years of agony) the Homeopathy did the trick. Sometimes NHS doesn't have the answer.
Another example I can give..... 5 years ago I suffered dreadful Vertigo/sickness , to the point that in one attack the paramedics though (before they wired me up) that I'd suffered a heart attack! Took me to hospital, where they did all necessary checks and could find nothing wrong. The registrar suggested I tried an alternative, maybe acupuncture. i tried a homeopath, no benefit. A few attacks and visits to GP where I commented that whenever I had there attacks I had gut pain - the GP insisted I was mistaken and it was inner ear related. I visited a nutritionist who was confident it was a lactose intolerance, and I should come off milk immediately. This did the trick. After years of eating anything I now had an intolerance. A simple cure - but it just needed finding, and it doesn't show up in allergy testing either!
Jasandjules said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
What if there are lots of patients, many of whom are getting iller or even dying as because they are shunning medicine for this quackery, alongside the odd patient that benefits from the placebo effect?
Damn straight... Oh, hang onhttp://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and...
Fastpedeller said:
. . . the Homeopathy did the trick.
Here is the Horizon report on the placebo effect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6DYQqUfaqQIf a placebo can generate fake oxygen, then everything is up for grabs.
It would appear that placebo rather than homeopathy 'did the trick'.
(Edited to add YT link)
Edited by Derek Smith on Tuesday 1st December 20:54
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Jasandjules said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
What if there are lots of patients, many of whom are getting iller or even dying as because they are shunning medicine for this quackery, alongside the odd patient that benefits from the placebo effect?
Damn straight... Oh, hang onhttp://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and...
Fastpedeller said:
No - 3 years of improvement before pregnancy. She was also told (at the time she was told hysterectomy was the only answer) that she would never be able to get pregnant. I keep an open mind on these things, but also don't wish to criticise the allopathic practitioners. Some methods (at a particular time) may work for one patient but not for others. I have witnessed what I consider to be a transformation in my Wife's health, and (unless it's a remarkable coincidence she suddenly got better after years of agony) the Homeopathy did the trick.
Sometimes NHS doesn't have the answer.
Another example I can give..... 5 years ago I suffered dreadful Vertigo/sickness , to the point that in one attack the paramedics though (before they wired me up) that I'd suffered a heart attack! Took me to hospital, where they did all necessary checks and could find nothing wrong. The registrar suggested I tried an alternative, maybe acupuncture. i tried a homeopath, no benefit. A few attacks and visits to GP where I commented that whenever I had there attacks I had gut pain - the GP insisted I was mistaken and it was inner ear related. I visited a nutritionist who was confident it was a lactose intolerance, and I should come off milk immediately. This did the trick. After years of eating anything I now had an intolerance. A simple cure - but it just needed finding, and it doesn't show up in allergy testing either!
Genuine question as I'm always surprised by people thinking that Homeopathy can work. Do you understand what homeopathy is? Sometimes NHS doesn't have the answer.
Another example I can give..... 5 years ago I suffered dreadful Vertigo/sickness , to the point that in one attack the paramedics though (before they wired me up) that I'd suffered a heart attack! Took me to hospital, where they did all necessary checks and could find nothing wrong. The registrar suggested I tried an alternative, maybe acupuncture. i tried a homeopath, no benefit. A few attacks and visits to GP where I commented that whenever I had there attacks I had gut pain - the GP insisted I was mistaken and it was inner ear related. I visited a nutritionist who was confident it was a lactose intolerance, and I should come off milk immediately. This did the trick. After years of eating anything I now had an intolerance. A simple cure - but it just needed finding, and it doesn't show up in allergy testing either!
Very good website to get more info : http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/
This thread demonstrates perfectly why people can be fooled by homeopathy - The body usually heals more minor ailments over time and sometimes, albeit rarely, even serious diseases can go into remission for no apparent reason. Just because this remission happens at the same time as someone is indulging in homeopathy or other quack remedies does not prove the 'treatment' caused the positive effect.
Then you have to factor in the psychological and placebo effects - I don't doubt having a homeopathic consultation where a kind person listens to all your woes for an hour then prescribes a water pill will make some people feel better....... kind of like a pseudo counselling session really.
Doesn't mean it should be paid for on the NHS though.... And the fact that drug companies have manipulated trial data about the effectiveness of some drugs doesn't change that either.... simply those drugs should be banned as well.
Then you have to factor in the psychological and placebo effects - I don't doubt having a homeopathic consultation where a kind person listens to all your woes for an hour then prescribes a water pill will make some people feel better....... kind of like a pseudo counselling session really.
Doesn't mean it should be paid for on the NHS though.... And the fact that drug companies have manipulated trial data about the effectiveness of some drugs doesn't change that either.... simply those drugs should be banned as well.
This whole thread is about anecdotal vs science.
Science is not a few people getting together and deciding what works anecdotally. That is the sort of science that takes place in mud huts in undeveloped countries where they don't have access to real science. Witchcraft and faith healing work anecdotally, just google them.
I'm not telling anyone they can't go to a faith healer, homoeopath, witchcraft, reflexologist, horologist, accupuncture. In fact I would encourage people to find their own way through life with whichever lifeboat gives them the most pleasure to cling to.
This thread isn't about telling people what to do. Its about telling people what the state shouldn't be funding. Up till now, way into the era of science we have had the scientific community guiding doctors in great detail through which drugs to use, and which to ignore in every situation. As a doctor I have to make a case for each drug I prescribe in terms of efficacy and cost. This all gets totted up and reviewed at the end of each year, and I am carefully managed with targets along these lines for payment. I accept this as I understand the taxpayers need for value for their tax money.
On the other hand homoeopaths just get given a bunch of taxpayers cash based on ..........what?
Only based on the fact that approximately half their patients will walk out of the clinic suggesting they are feeling better and anecdotally they think this is linked to their clinic visit?
Science is not a few people getting together and deciding what works anecdotally. That is the sort of science that takes place in mud huts in undeveloped countries where they don't have access to real science. Witchcraft and faith healing work anecdotally, just google them.
I'm not telling anyone they can't go to a faith healer, homoeopath, witchcraft, reflexologist, horologist, accupuncture. In fact I would encourage people to find their own way through life with whichever lifeboat gives them the most pleasure to cling to.
This thread isn't about telling people what to do. Its about telling people what the state shouldn't be funding. Up till now, way into the era of science we have had the scientific community guiding doctors in great detail through which drugs to use, and which to ignore in every situation. As a doctor I have to make a case for each drug I prescribe in terms of efficacy and cost. This all gets totted up and reviewed at the end of each year, and I am carefully managed with targets along these lines for payment. I accept this as I understand the taxpayers need for value for their tax money.
On the other hand homoeopaths just get given a bunch of taxpayers cash based on ..........what?
Only based on the fact that approximately half their patients will walk out of the clinic suggesting they are feeling better and anecdotally they think this is linked to their clinic visit?
julian64 said:
This whole thread is about anecdotal vs science.
Science is not a few people getting together and deciding what works anecdotally. That is the sort of science that takes place in mud huts in undeveloped countries where they don't have access to real science. Witchcraft and faith healing work anecdotally, just google them.
I'm not telling anyone they can't go to a faith healer, homoeopath, witchcraft, reflexologist, horologist, accupuncture. In fact I would encourage people to find their own way through life with whichever lifeboat gives them the most pleasure to cling to.
This thread isn't about telling people what to do. Its about telling people what the state shouldn't be funding. Up till now, way into the era of science we have had the scientific community guiding doctors in great detail through which drugs to use, and which to ignore in every situation. As a doctor I have to make a case for each drug I prescribe in terms of efficacy and cost. This all gets totted up and reviewed at the end of each year, and I am carefully managed with targets along these lines for payment. I accept this as I understand the taxpayers need for value for their tax money.
On the other hand homoeopaths just get given a bunch of taxpayers cash based on ..........what?
Only based on the fact that approximately half their patients will walk out of the clinic suggesting they are feeling better and anecdotally they think this is linked to their clinic visit?
Agree. But what about numerologist? Science is not a few people getting together and deciding what works anecdotally. That is the sort of science that takes place in mud huts in undeveloped countries where they don't have access to real science. Witchcraft and faith healing work anecdotally, just google them.
I'm not telling anyone they can't go to a faith healer, homoeopath, witchcraft, reflexologist, horologist, accupuncture. In fact I would encourage people to find their own way through life with whichever lifeboat gives them the most pleasure to cling to.
This thread isn't about telling people what to do. Its about telling people what the state shouldn't be funding. Up till now, way into the era of science we have had the scientific community guiding doctors in great detail through which drugs to use, and which to ignore in every situation. As a doctor I have to make a case for each drug I prescribe in terms of efficacy and cost. This all gets totted up and reviewed at the end of each year, and I am carefully managed with targets along these lines for payment. I accept this as I understand the taxpayers need for value for their tax money.
On the other hand homoeopaths just get given a bunch of taxpayers cash based on ..........what?
Only based on the fact that approximately half their patients will walk out of the clinic suggesting they are feeling better and anecdotally they think this is linked to their clinic visit?
julian64 said:
I'm not telling anyone they can't go to a faith healer, homoeopath, witchcraft, reflexologist, horologist, accupuncture. In fact I would encourage people to find their own way through life with whichever lifeboat gives them the most pleasure to cling to.
I absolutely agree with most of your post but it sticks in my craw where charlatans are permitted to profit from the desperate, needy and ignorant. Especially so when it could encourage people to avoid proper treatment. Greedydog said:
julian64 said:
I'm not telling anyone they can't go to a faith healer, homoeopath, witchcraft, reflexologist, horologist, accupuncture. In fact I would encourage people to find their own way through life with whichever lifeboat gives them the most pleasure to cling to.
I absolutely agree with most of your post but it sticks in my craw where charlatans are permitted to profit from the desperate, needy and ignorant. Especially so when it could encourage people to avoid proper treatment. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/884134...
Fastpedeller said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I went to an acupuncturist suffering with pins and needles, and the bugger made it worse!
I went to a doctor and he made me worse - It doesn't mean they are all ineffective or 'bad'Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff