Meanwhile in Poland

Author
Discussion

Seek

Original Poster:

1,169 posts

199 months

Thursday 31st December 2015
quotequote all
Media lockdown

Getting pretty ropey in Poland:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/729e39d0-ae31-11e5-993b-...

steveT350C

6,728 posts

160 months

dandarez

13,244 posts

282 months

Thursday 31st December 2015
quotequote all
I note some reports saying 'the EU' is raising concerns.
No its not.
It's a European Commissioner who has raised concerns.
Rightly so, but ...who?

Slippery slope. Another reason to get OUT!

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Thursday 31st December 2015
quotequote all
Is it me or is history repeating itself.

Phud

1,262 posts

142 months

Thursday 31st December 2015
quotequote all
looks very much like different times to me too.

vonuber

17,868 posts

164 months

Thursday 31st December 2015
quotequote all
They are also looking to ban abortion etc. and generally turn back the clock for women.

I'll be seeing one of my polish friends after new year, will be interesting to see her view.

jurbie

2,339 posts

200 months

Thursday 31st December 2015
quotequote all
Unless something has changed recently then abortion, apart from exceptional circumstances, has always been illegal in Poland.

PiS are a funny lot, most see them as conservative right wing however some of their policies are very left wing but there's no denying that they are pretty insular and guided by a fairly strong Catholic orthodoxy. Considering the majority they got in the election I wonder if this is another downside of mass emigration in the sense that the intelligent and motivated have all left the country leaving it in the clutches of the idiots.


Mr_B

10,480 posts

242 months

Thursday 31st December 2015
quotequote all
vonuber said:
They are also looking to ban abortion etc. and generally turn back the clock for women.

I'll be seeing one of my polish friends after new year, will be interesting to see her view.
Polish guy at work wasn't happy with the new government, saying they were coming in and changing everything in a rather authoritarian way . I think he mentioned something about abortion and either stopping or limiting IVF treatment and generally being a bit too close to the church.

Octoposse

2,152 posts

184 months

Friday 1st January 2016
quotequote all
The Guardian getting pretty excised about this as well, commentator demanding 'EU action'. Personally I don't feel that it's the business of anyone who isn't Polish, just as I'm not interested in the views of, say, the average Saudi Arabian as to how we should organise our society.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Friday 1st January 2016
quotequote all
Octoposse said:
The Guardian getting pretty excised about this as well, commentator demanding 'EU action'. Personally I don't feel that it's the business of anyone who isn't Polish, just as I'm not interested in the views of, say, the average Saudi Arabian as to how we should organise our society.
Quite right. It's important to bear in mind that the government in Poland gained an absolute majority in a free and fair election; it's what the Poles want. If they don't like it, they currently have the right to move elsewhere.


Guybrush

4,328 posts

205 months

Friday 1st January 2016
quotequote all
davepoth said:
Octoposse said:
The Guardian getting pretty excised about this as well, commentator demanding 'EU action'. Personally I don't feel that it's the business of anyone who isn't Polish, just as I'm not interested in the views of, say, the average Saudi Arabian as to how we should organise our society.
Quite right. It's important to bear in mind that the government in Poland gained an absolute majority in a free and fair election; it's what the Poles want. If they don't like it, they currently have the right to move elsewhere.
Did the electorate vote for this though? I doubt anyone votes for state control, unless they are communistic leaning and are looking forward to some sort of state funded job.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Friday 1st January 2016
quotequote all
Guybrush said:
Did the electorate vote for this though? I doubt anyone votes for state control, unless they are communistic leaning and are looking forward to some sort of state funded job.
I can't read Polish, but the relevant section of their Wikipedia has been the same since before the election, mentioning the executive powers and rolling back of media freedoms, so I think it's a fair assumption that it was in their manifesto.

jurbie

2,339 posts

200 months

Monday 4th January 2016
quotequote all
The Polish foreign minister has given an interview to German magazine Bild.

Bild said:
- The current media reforms are necessary because "the previous government created [in public media] a marked leftist agenda. As if the world according to the Marxist model must automatically develop only in one direction - a new mix of cultures and races, a world made up of cyclists and vegetarians who use only renewable energy sources and fight against all forms of religion. This has nothing to do with traditional Polish values".
- By contrast, PiS's priorities are the things that "move the majority of Poles: tradition, historical consciousness, love of country, belief in God and a normal family life between a man and a woman".
- The constitutional-tribunal reforms have been necessary because it is a "politically oriented institution which interpreted the law according to political criteria". He also notes that when former prime minister Donald Tusk failed to implement 48 court rulings, there were no international protests.
http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/polen/eu-kommis...y

I have to say I have some sympathy with his view but it's just a shame they feel the need to go so far in the opposite direction.


Bluebarge

4,519 posts

177 months

Monday 4th January 2016
quotequote all
Octoposse said:
The Guardian getting pretty excised about this as well, commentator demanding 'EU action'. Personally I don't feel that it's the business of anyone who isn't Polish, just as I'm not interested in the views of, say, the average Saudi Arabian as to how we should organise our society.
Poland has signed up to EU treaties requiring adherence to a certain set of values including freedom of speech. That is why it is the EU's business.

The Saudis have not signed any such treaties and the fact that they sit on huge reserves of oil means no-one has the power to make them do so. That still does not mean we should not try to make them behave in a more enlightened fashion, however.

TTwiggy

11,499 posts

203 months

Monday 4th January 2016
quotequote all
jurbie said:
The Polish foreign minister has given an interview to German magazine Bild.

Bild said:
- The current media reforms are necessary because "the previous government created [in public media] a marked leftist agenda. As if the world according to the Marxist model must automatically develop only in one direction - a new mix of cultures and races, a world made up of cyclists and vegetarians who use only renewable energy sources and fight against all forms of religion. This has nothing to do with traditional Polish values".
- By contrast, PiS's priorities are the things that "move the majority of Poles: tradition, historical consciousness, love of country, belief in God and a normal family life between a man and a woman".
- The constitutional-tribunal reforms have been necessary because it is a "politically oriented institution which interpreted the law according to political criteria". He also notes that when former prime minister Donald Tusk failed to implement 48 court rulings, there were no international protests.
Reads like the start of an NP&E manifesto.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Monday 4th January 2016
quotequote all
jurbie said:
http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/polen/eu-kommis...y

I have to say I have some sympathy with his view but it's just a shame they feel the need to go so far in the opposite direction.
So far? Sounds like pretty standard social conservative stuff to me. Shame our 'conservative' party doesn't believe/do what it says on the tin.

vonuber

17,868 posts

164 months

Thursday 7th January 2016
quotequote all
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/07/polan...

Poland’s president has signed into law a bill handing the conservative government control of state media, despite concern elsewhere in the EU and condemnation from rights watchdogs.

Andrzej Duda signed the legislation because he wants state media to be “impartial, objective and credible”, his aide Małgorzata Sadurska said. She added that the president did not believe broadcasters guaranteed objective information in their current form.

Under the new law, senior figures in public radio and television will be appointed – and sacked – by the treasury minister, and will no longer be hired by the National Broadcasting Council.

Under the legislation current managers and supervisory board members of Poland’s public broadcasters will be fired with immediate effect.

jurbie

2,339 posts

200 months

Thursday 7th January 2016
quotequote all
In other words the government believes that the Polish media is being run by a left wing cabal so it's kicking them all out and appointing their own people. Imagine Cameron getting rid of the people who run the BBC because it's infected with leftism, it would be an NP&E wet dream and will be fascinating to see how this works out.

Seek

Original Poster:

1,169 posts

199 months

Wednesday 24th February 2016
quotequote all
EUbusiness said:
(PARIS) - French President Francois Hollande warned Friday that an EU member state could be sanctioned if the extreme-right came to power there -- and could even be suspended from the bloc.

"A country can be suspended from the European Union," Hollande told France Inter radio.

"Europe has legal tools, through articles in treaties, to prevent a country from violating democratic principles," he said.

Human rights watchdog the Council of Europe last week expressed concern at legislative changes proposed by Poland's new right-wing government that have been described both at home and abroad as unconstitutional and undemocratic.

Similar concerns have been expressed about Hungary's right-wing Prime Minister Viktor Orban.

"When the freedom of the media is in danger, when constitutions and human rights are under attack, Europe must not just be a safety net. It must put in place procedures to suspend (countries) -- it can go that far," Hollande said.

He said no country had ever been suspended from the EU for such a reason but he said "checks" were necessary on the proposed changes in Poland.
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/politics-france.16iw

Murph7355

37,646 posts

255 months

Thursday 25th February 2016
quotequote all
jurbie said:
In other words the government believes that the Polish media is being run by a left wing cabal so it's kicking them all out and appointing their own people. Imagine Cameron getting rid of the people who run the BBC because it's infected with leftism, it would be an NP&E wet dream and will be fascinating to see how this works out.
The Poles, IME, are a very black and white, fk you people. There's much to be admired about it... As long as you don't need them to do something for you smile

As I was reading this I was thinking of the parallels with the BBC. And potentially how grey and wishy washy we've become as a nation...