Can we talk about Germany for a bit?

[TheLordJohn]

amgmcqueen said:

Based on the damage she's caused to Europe, i'm enjoying watching her squirm.

Based on the same, I’d enjoy watching her hang.

[Carl_Manchester]

TheLordJohn said:

amgmcqueen said:

Based on the damage she's caused to Europe, i'm enjoying watching her squirm.

Based on the same, I’d enjoy watching her hang.

bit 'arsh like....

[wc98]

Europa1 said:

hyphen said:

^^ What does that pic even mean??

Good question. Bigkeeko, over to you - what point do you think the picture is making?

i think it was meant to show that even a nutcase like hitler was more popular than merkel is today. note crowd in hitler pic and lack of the same in merkel pic.

[TheLordJohn]

bigkeeko said:

Then the biggest U turn in politics since the `bankers` shifted allegiance mid war in 1916.

Do you mean the (((bankers)))?

[Digga]

steveT350C said:

Digga said:

and yes there was (and is) a demographic need for Germany to add new, young, workers

Selectively quoting you there Digga, but with youth unemployment levels in the Southern EU countries as they are, did she really need to go further afield?

That's a very good point. I don't really know the relative numbers of migrants from Southern EU to Germany, versus, say the UK, but Germany's figures are here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22446774

Perhaps they were worried that EU alone might not be sufficient? Either way, demographic economics were clearly not the only motive behind Merkel's 'open doors' policy. There must have been a good deal of virtue signalling and perhaps even an element of attempting to write one's name into the history books. She's certainly done that, but not perhaps in the way she may have hoped.

If you look at the way Tusk is using his EU platform to berate his political opponents back home in Poland, you can see which way the Brussels 'hive mind' works.

[Robertj21a]

BlackFlag said:

She's become an Open Society Foundation shill and proponent of globalism. The immigration policy is part of a broader set of policies to break down national identities and eventually borders, in an effort to centralize government in the EU. It's a dangerous movement.

......and could hasten the steady decline of the EU as a whole. There looks to be a big mess looming, not far away.

[Dog Star]

Wobbegong said:

I think it has caused a lot of political trouble and possibly resulted in the U.K. voting to leave the EU

Of this I have no doubt whatsoever; the UKs narrow vote to leave the EU was supported really on a tripod, remove any of these three "legs" and I have no doubt that the UK would have voted "remain" by a similar margin

1. Merkel's inviting of all Syrians into Germany
2. Junckner's utter refusal to offer David Cameron even to smallest concessions, basically he said "fk you".
3. the refugee crisis in the Med

Any one of those was worth a few percent of the vote swing, I think, but the biggest was Merkel.

[paulrockliffe]

Dog Star said:

Wobbegong said:

I think it has caused a lot of political trouble and possibly resulted in the U.K. voting to leave the EU

Of this I have no doubt whatsoever; the UKs narrow vote to leave the EU was supported really on a tripod, remove any of these three "legs" and I have no doubt that the UK would have voted "remain" by a similar margin

1. Merkel's inviting of all Syrians into Germany
2. Junckner's utter refusal to offer David Cameron even to smallest concessions, basically he said "fk you".
3. the refugee crisis in the Med

Any one of those was worth a few percent of the vote swing, I think, but the biggest was Merkel.

I don't agree. The refugee crisis and migration into Germany was just rhetoric, the same as any other migration based rhetoric of which there was already more than enough. Neither have a material effect on migration into the UK, though they are a pointer to the competence of the EU. Take those away and you've still got the same net migration figure into the UK, which was 90% of the rhetoric around migration.

On your second point, Cameron got everything he asked for in the negotiation. There's a case that the EU should have said, er hang on that's not really going to swing it for you, what about something proper? But the principle that it was for Cameron to judge the domestic situation and ask for what was necessary wins out for me.

For me, the fundamentals underlying the vote was a very clear eurosceptic majority based on 40 years of experience and the obvious direction of travel vs fear of the unknown and the difficulty around leaving. The rest was fairly minor and while the vote may have been swung one way or the other in different circumstances the result properly and fairly reflected public opinion of the EU.

[Europa1]

wc98 said:

Europa1 said:

hyphen said:

^^ What does that pic even mean??

Good question. Bigkeeko, over to you - what point do you think the picture is making?

i think it was meant to show that even a nutcase like hitler was more popular than merkel is today. note crowd in hitler pic and lack of the same in merkel pic.

Bigkeeko, is WC98 correct?

[johnxjsc1985]

Despite her saying Elections may be necessary I feel this is a bluff as the Right seem to be confident of doing even better next time.

[hyphen]

Schulz and the SPD have agreed to talk with Merkel. Aiming for it to be done in a few weeks before putting to to a vote of the SPD party members.

[anonymous-user]

hyphen said:

Schulz and the SPD have agreed to talk with Merkel. Aiming for it to be done in a few weeks before putting to to a vote of the SPD party members.

If they do end up with another Grand Coalition, the next German elections are going to be carnage for the main parties.

[BlackLabel]

jsf said:

hyphen said:

Schulz and the SPD have agreed to talk with Merkel. Aiming for it to be done in a few weeks before putting to to a vote of the SPD party members.

If they do end up with another Grand Coalition, the next German elections are going to be carnage for the main parties.

Merkel won't care - she'll have been in the top job for 16 consecutive years by then (quite an achievement) and the chances of her standing again will be slim. Despite the constraints of coalition politics Merkel will be able to do pretty much as she pleases for the next 4 years because she won't be going to the polls again.

[anonymous-user]

BlackLabel said:

jsf said:

hyphen said:

Schulz and the SPD have agreed to talk with Merkel. Aiming for it to be done in a few weeks before putting to to a vote of the SPD party members.

If they do end up with another Grand Coalition, the next German elections are going to be carnage for the main parties.

Merkel won't care - she'll have been in the top job for 16 consecutive years by then (quite an achievement) and the chances of her standing again will be slim. Despite the constraints of coalition politics Merkel will be able to do pretty much as she pleases for the next 4 years because she won't be going to the polls again.

That's the concern, another 4 years of Germany at the centre of the Euro and everyone else can go whistle is going to end badly. It's probably too late now anyway.

[johnxjsc1985]

jsf said:

That's the concern, another 4 years of Germany at the centre of the Euro and everyone else can go whistle is going to end badly. It's probably too late now anyway.

maybe they will at some point realise that if the drain the pot dry there will be nothing left for anyone else including them.

[TheLordJohn]

Well our own pot is minus ‘dry’ to the tune of a couple of £trillion.

[Rich_W]

In slight tangeant. After last years Berlin market attack. Concrete blocks have beenput down in certain places.


Gift wrapped so you don't feel alarmed




Still I'm sure it will help to address the effect rather than cause.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/21/six-syr...

[Digga]

Rich_W said:

In slight tangeant. After last years Berlin market attack. Concrete blocks have beenput down in certain places.


Gift wrapped so you don't feel alarmed

I find that approach quite amusing. Reminds me of the very old street urchin trick of wrapping a house brink in newspaper and leaving it on the pavement for someone to punt, thinking it's just a ball of paper.

[Murph7355]

Digga said:

I find that approach quite amusing. Reminds me of the very old street urchin trick of wrapping a house brink in newspaper and leaving it on the pavement for someone to punt, thinking it's just a ball of paper.

I can see the sense of what they've done to a point...but tackling yesterday's approaches is almost certainly a waste of time for anything other than making people think "something" is being done.

There is no real solution to these things sadly. Certainly not ones that would be acceptable from a civil liberties point of view.

[StottyGTR]

Rich_W said:

In slight tangeant. After last years Berlin market attack. Concrete blocks have beenput down in certain places.


Gift wrapped so you don't feel alarmed




Still I'm sure it will help to address the effect rather than cause.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/21/six-syr...

I hope they do this all over the place. God knows why they put such unsightly barriers in place in the UK when they could very easily turn a terrorist attack defence into a piece of art.