Is Britain Full?

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
speedy_thrills said:
Well it's seem rational that if quality of life was impacted by population density then you'd expect an exodus from places like London. However for many people clearly the economic and social opportunity in cities outweigh other drawbacks as people continue to move to cities.

That's not to argue that cities should be made unpleasant, new housing and infrastructure initiatives need to take into account the changes in urbanisation and demographics.
I think in a great city (like London) or city state like Hong Kong , the high population density, usually leads to good services and facilities. There are transport networks, shops, bars, restaurants, theaters, fast broadband etc etc

In the country, there are less of these services and poor roads but you have wide open space and nature.

Unfortunately in the uk, most people are in a halfway house with poorish transport and facilities but still medium density population of commuter towns.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
drivetrain said:
Numpty.
Oh, look. You've deleted all your previous posts.

Embarrassed at your previous outpourings? Or did your parents make you do it?

roflroflrofl

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
Thing is all the congestion is very localised around a few big cities, and mostly London. I'm all against planned economies but if some of London's activities could be moved elsewhere to stimulate economic activity in the regions and ease some of the pressure on the SE it would seem to help all.

The ongoing struggle about where not to build a new airport seems like a good example. Isn't it feasible to upgrade other airports to take more long haul flights?

It seems that Manchester has two flights a day to New York and Glasgow one per day but not Sundays. While Heathrow has about 3-4 an hour. Manchester and Glasgow could potentially serve huge populations, but lots of people who want to go to the US will end up clogging up the trains, motorways to get there, and further adding to the load on Heathrow when they do.

For example from Newcastle has 5 flights a day to Heathrow, plus more to Gatwick, Paris, Amsterdam and Dubai. A chunk of these people will be connecting to onward flights. Multiply this by all the other smallish airports in the UK and it's a lot of people who would find other airports more convenient.

It would reduce load on infrastructure, possibly stimulate regional tourism and business, and maybe even save the polar bears and dandelions who will be global warmed away by Easter at the current rate.

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
Full? No, of course not. But we do have a badly implemented immigration policy and poor border controls. I

s it unsustainable? We could argue that point all day long, but I personally believe that this country accepts too many migrants. Doctors, nurses, professionals and the required trades folk? Yes please, if they are of good moral standing and not of poor health. Poorly educated no marks who aren't able to contribute? No thanks.

Probably the only decent thing Cameron has done regarding immigration is over the Syria crisis, trying to ensure people are fully vetted before arriving and are being taken from the camps near the affected area rather than just allowing folk in and worrying about the consequences after the fact.

Edited by Axionknight on Friday 15th January 08:20

wiggy001

6,542 posts

270 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
Pommygranite said:
How much land space you have doesn't determine your 'we're full' marker - it's how much space there is in your infrastructure - roads, schools, hospitals etc.

Parts of the UK certainly feel full and parts not so much.
Exactly this.

But I don't necessarily thing the infrastructure should be increased ad infinitum to accommodate more people at the detriment of quality of life.

And those stating that there is plenty of green and pleasant land we could build on?!?! Do you really want to live in a concrete jungle that's prone to flooding (just one argument against).

Nope, we need controlled immigration and for the infrastructure to be improved to a decent standard for our current population. And there is can stop.

Also, we may be 51st in terms of density... where does England on its own stand in that list? And where are we in Europe? And how is the infrastructure in those countries above us?

Oceanic

731 posts

100 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
Personally I felt the UK was at the point where there were too many people for the current infrastructure until I left the country a few years ago.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
el stovey said:
GG89 said:
Funkycoldribena said:
NinjaPower said:
FredClogs said:
I went to euro car parts today to buy a Bosch filter for my VW... They'd sold out... Bloody immigrants, they come over here, buying the stuff i wanted to buy...
Do you have a point to make?
Does he ever?
Nope!

Pathetic.
I might be wrong but I think his point is that the forum us full of xenophobic threads about immigration/foreigners/Muslims/the Scottish etc
Perhaps, but the forum simply reflects the feelings of a portion of the population, who feel they can speak freely in relatively anonymous environment.

I certainly know that I hear negative comments in 'real life' regarding immigration on at least a weekly basis from colleagues, relatives, customers, friends of friends etc

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
rs1952 said:
The kippers will be along in a minute...
Wow the I'm a comfortby off lefty post came early !!!!!

Elroy Blue

8,686 posts

191 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
Orchid1 said:
I've been to Africa and the roads are literally better than the UK's in alot of places.
Good to see our overseas corruption budget in action. Soon to be higher than the Home Office one, controlling the UK Border Agency, Immigration, Policing etc etc. There's a lesson there

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
Orchid1 said:
I've been to Africa and the roads are literally better than the UK's in alot of places.
rofl

My cat's breath literally smells of cat food.

Define "a lot".


powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
NinjaPower said:
el stovey said:
GG89 said:
Funkycoldribena said:
NinjaPower said:
FredClogs said:
I went to euro car parts today to buy a Bosch filter for my VW... They'd sold out... Bloody immigrants, they come over here, buying the stuff i wanted to buy...
Do you have a point to make?
Does he ever?
Nope!

Pathetic.
I might be wrong but I think his point is that the forum us full of xenophobic threads about immigration/foreigners/Muslims/the Scottish etc
Perhaps, but the forum simply reflects the feelings of a portion of the population, who feel they can speak freely in relatively anonymous environment.

I certainly know that I hear negative comments in 'real life' regarding immigration on at least a weekly basis from colleagues, relatives, customers, friends of friends etc
My opinion is , the current level of Immigration has a negative affect on the average person , I fully understand and respect
why people from poorer countrys want to come here most have a work ethic that shames most brits,
I think we should welcome immigrants and discourage migration IE people who come for a few years to harvest a lump sum to take home , taking low paid , and cash in hand jobs which depresses wages to the detriment of the person who wants to build a life in the UK... UKIP is right about a skils based immigration system 100%...

Edited by powerstroke on Friday 15th January 08:51

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
John145 said:
Terminator X said:
Too many people it seems but the Govt need more for the tax grab. Broken system imho.

TX.
The elephant in the room is that the type of immigration we're getting is mostly not the type required to generate the tax revenue for them to be self sufficient wrt infrastructure. This inconvenient fact is glossed over as "immigrants don't use the NHS", which is a bare faced lie.
Indeed, however without them would we be in recession? GDP growth is far from strongly positive, GDP/head is in decline.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
wiggy001 said:
Exactly this.

But I don't necessarily thing the infrastructure should be increased ad infinitum to accommodate more people at the detriment of quality of life.

And those stating that there is plenty of green and pleasant land we could build on?!?! Do you really want to live in a concrete jungle that's prone to flooding (just one argument against).

Nope, we need controlled immigration and for the infrastructure to be improved to a decent standard for our current population. And there is can stop.

Also, we may be 51st in terms of density... where does England on its own stand in that list? And where are we in Europe? And how is the infrastructure in those countries above us?
Mostly this ^^.

IMO we're overfull if we're not able to feed our inhabitants ourselves, which was some time ago.

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
John145 said:
Terminator X said:
Too many people it seems but the Govt need more for the tax grab. Broken system imho.

TX.
The elephant in the room is that the type of immigration we're getting is mostly not the type required to generate the tax revenue for them to be self sufficient wrt infrastructure. This inconvenient fact is glossed over as "immigrants don't use the NHS", which is a bare faced lie.
Indeed, however without them would we be in recession? GDP growth is far from strongly positive, GDP/head is in decline.
Would we ??Why??? are car washes and low paid warehouse jobs good for GDP ??? does all the money they send or take back overseas pay for hospitals , schools or roads ........

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
No, we are not full.

But we are letting our infrastructure lag dangerously behind the level of population.

The ideal would be a guarantee of an annual spend per head of population on infrastructure, but that ain't gonna happen.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
powerstroke said:
Esseesse said:
John145 said:
Terminator X said:
Too many people it seems but the Govt need more for the tax grab. Broken system imho.

TX.
The elephant in the room is that the type of immigration we're getting is mostly not the type required to generate the tax revenue for them to be self sufficient wrt infrastructure. This inconvenient fact is glossed over as "immigrants don't use the NHS", which is a bare faced lie.
Indeed, however without them would we be in recession? GDP growth is far from strongly positive, GDP/head is in decline.
Would we ??Why??? are car washes and low paid warehouse jobs good for GDP ??? does all the money they send or take back overseas pay for hospitals , schools or roads ........
Low paid or not, and a net contributor or not IIRC it contributes to GDP. If I borrow £100k to buy a house, I think that adds to GDP estimates. What I am not suggesting is that I think we would be worse off individually if they were not here, I just wonder if they're convenient for the government numbers.

jeevescat

880 posts

210 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
No, we're not full, but the rate of population growth, 4 million in the last decade, is too fast for the infrastructure to keep pace.

The NHS is a good example, it's got to the point that no matter how much money you throw at it, training doctors, nurses and building hospitals takes time.

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
powerstroke said:
rs1952 said:
The kippers will be along in a minute...
Wow the I'm a comfortby off lefty post came early !!!!!
Not to mention he spends his winters in Cape Town bless him and his chesty cough.

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
mondeoman said:
voyds9 said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/activityandadven...

Country population density map.

We are among the most densely populated but by no means thee most populated.
Be interesting to see that by city rather than by country.
indeed - these maps showing the UK to be the 51st most densely populated state are a little disingenuous TBH. Take both Scotland and Wales out of the equation (which could be a reality for at least one of them at some point in the future) and suddenly the density leaps up.


There are a number of ways that 'full' can be defined:

- is there physical space to build on? Then we are not full
- can we feed ourselves? Then we are full
- do we actually want (or even need) green spaces for our well-being? Depending on that then we are full (or not as you desire it)
- can the current utility infrastructure cope with more people? It seems as if the answer on this is 'no' given that we are being warned that over the next few years we could be facing power-cuts due to supply/distribution problems


I guess that the biggest issue for England is that the SouthEast (in particular) seems to be the focus of many people to move to so you have quite frankly some gorgeous parts of the UK (or even just England) which are virtually empty and a small section which is creaking at the seams WRT: transport, schools, hospitals, rail links, utilities.

Ridley

225 posts

99 months

Friday 15th January 2016
quotequote all
GG89 said:
Funkycoldribena said:
NinjaPower said:
FredClogs said:
I went to euro car parts today to buy a Bosch filter for my VW... They'd sold out... Bloody immigrants, they come over here, buying the stuff i wanted to buy...
Do you have a point to make?
Does he ever?
Nope!

Pathetic.
The irony contained in these nested quoted is not lost on this poster.